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gzmcwherter
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Post by gzmcwherter » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:34 am

Sorry, Gordon. I was looking at Isabella not Jean.
Regards,
Gina

paddyscar
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Post by paddyscar » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:19 am

Gloswegian wrote:The 1851 census shows Jean as a daughter and her mother Isabella as the wife. Would this not indicate that she was living with her mother and her father was absent but still alive? Gordon
I would say that Jean is living with, or visiting her mother on the census date. As Isabella is listed as wife, there would be a husband somewhere. There are several reasons you may not be able to find him given on ScotlandsPeople http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... .aspx?1278
There is also a link to Missing 1851 Census records on that same page.
Gloswegian wrote: There is a marital status next to Jean but I could not state if it is a W for widow or not. It could be an M....can anyone clarify?
If Jean had married, you may find a record in the OPR marriage records, but they are mostly Church records, as mandatory registration did not come into effect until 1855. Her status would be listed as M (married), U (unmarried) or W (widowed) so that's not making it any clearer.

Frances
John Kelly (b 22 Sep 1897) eldest child of John Kelly & Christina Lipsett Kelly of Glasgow

LesleyB
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Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:13 am

Is this the only child James & Jean had to your knowledge?

WILLIAM ROBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 05 MAR 1838 Boyndie, Banff, Scotland

(This being the marriage:
JAMES ROBERTSON - JEAN URQUHART - IGI extract
Gender: Male Marriage: 04 JUN 1837 Boyndie, Banff, Scotland)
I take it you have seen both the OPR entries for the above events? If not that is the first thing to do, just incase some wee bit of vital detail is hiding in there!

So, if I've got the correct entries above, we might come to the conclusion, being the first son, that James' father may have been a William. And if we further assume that your man was about 25 when he married, give or take 5 years, and we guess that he may have been from Banff, then entering these into the search at IGI there are three candidates to consider in the results. (one is a submission, two are extracts)

Sometimes you have to build these kind of possible scenarios, go and see what you can find based on these, and then with the three candidates, find out what happened to them 1841, marriage, kids names , 1851 and hopefully deaths after 1855. In that way you may be able to eliminate one or two of them, and be left with a likely match. The difficult bit can be proving it without any doubt.

- just looking at Jean's age though, maybe James was older when he married?

Best wishes
Lesley

Gloswegian
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Location: Gloucester (Ex Glasgow)

Post by Gloswegian » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:24 am

Thanks again everybody,

I will have a go at the research suggested and see what happens.

I believe that William is the only child of James Robertson and Jean Urquhart from what i can see on SP and the IGI and the popular consensus is that Jean was a widow by 1851. (it is completely irrational I know and not based on anything at all, but I have a feeling there may be something strange about James' death. Either a work accident or something else more sinister! I don't know why I have this feeling but....)

Back to the facts then, having viewed the birth/christening record of William in 1838, there is nothing of note. There were two witnesses and both seem to be local guys John Henry of Blackpots and Geo Ross of Whitehills.
There is nothing either on the wedding entry apart from both names and that they were both "of Boyndie".

The clues really are running out and I am grateful to Lesley for suggesting a possible avenue to the next generation.

Anyway, onwards and backwards.

Regards to all

Gordon

LesleyB
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Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:49 pm

Hi Gordon
I'm not saying this is connected, but just worth being aware of it...
On freecen 1841, this is the only James Robertson I can find so far with a fishing connection -

Piece: SCT1841/155 Place: Gamrie -Banffshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Gamrie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 18
Address: Crovie

ROBERTSON Jane F 48 Banffshire
ROBERTSON James M 17 Fisherman Banffshire
ROBERTSON Jane F 15 Banffshire
ROBERTSON Margt. F 7 Banffshire

With Robertson as a surname though, it is going to be difficult to know anything for certain!

kenspeckle
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Location: born in Glasgow now living in Huon Valley Tasmania

Post by kenspeckle » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:21 pm

Yes you MUST get the OPR entry for the marriage as it just may have a clue ie where he is from and his occupation ..

also when doubt worth getting actual census as to whether she is W wife or W widow though freecen is usually pretty accurate as I used to do transcriptions and I know lots of checks in place if any doubt on an entry

if you look at IGI on LDS batch M111494 there are a few more Robertson's in Boyndie getting married possible family and worth a follow up on only one Urquhart which is Jean

looking at Urquhart on 1841 census for Boyndie there is Isabella Urquhart the midwife age 55 and James age 11 looks like may be Watson
his surname ..
another entry has Jane Urquhart age 35 VKL (Various Kinds of Labour)
Elizabeth Urquhart age 13 and William Robertson age 3
I think they may be linked they are the only Urquharts in Boyndie

possible that Jane/Jean may have kept or used her maiden name
1851 census has Isabella Urquhart the midwife b Cullen Banffshire age 68 Jean Robertson her daughter age 48 washerwoman William Roberston son of Jane age 13
so that confirms 1841

1861 has Jean Robertson pauper formerly domestic servant b circa 1800 Forglen Banffshire she is living in Parish of Marnoch I think her address should read Dens of Mayen
Marnoch Boyndie Forglen are all close
where did she die ? and what year does it name her parents on death cert ?

the William Robertson age 3 in 1841 is son of James Robertson & Jean Urquhart b Boyndie Jan 1838 its the only birth on LDS

James Watson age 11 in 1841 Census with Isabella the midwife is son of James Watson & Jane Urquhart b May 1830 at Boyndie noted as JAMES WATSON OR URQUHART so possible James Robertson was hubby no 2 as Elizabeth age 13 also with Jane in 1841 cesus see LDS IGI Elizabeth Watson or Urquhart was b 1827 to Jane Urquhart & James Watson

so looks as if perhaps hubby no 1 died and she then married James Robertson though a James Watson married a Helen Smith at Boyndie in 1830 ???

so very vital to get the originals as much can be found over what is on IGI indexes

ps I had started on this before you actually posted your latest findings just had a look back and see I am covering old ground regards lesley in Tassie
researching : Roddick, Stewart, Combe,Lyle , Wilkie, Budge, Kirkwood,Howat, McKinlay, Gunning, Gumprecht, Mirrlees, Muckersie, Greig, Moncrieff, Pattison, Hornibrook, Teape, Brockhoff,Buchanan,

Gloswegian
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Location: Gloucester (Ex Glasgow)

Post by Gloswegian » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:13 pm

Lesley,
ps I had started on this before you actually posted your latest findings just had a look back and see I am covering old ground regards lesley in Tassie
There are still details in your findings that are new to me so I thank you for that. Every little helps as they say! It is these details which help to cement the data into a cohesive set of findings and put some flesh on the bones of a set of documents.

I'm still looking for anything at all on James though. I've been trawling anything significant around the Boyndie area from 1838 to 1851. So far nothing but there is something out there, I'm sure.

Currie
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Location: Australia

Post by Currie » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:57 am

Hello All,

There’s an interesting article in the Caledonian Mercury (Edinburgh), Saturday, June 8, 1839. It probably explains why there was only one child of the marriage.

MELANCHOLY ACCIDENT.—THREE LIVES LOST.—On Thursday last, the 30th ultimo, a coble, belonging to the salmon fishing station of Messrs Hogarth, adjacent to Whitehills, left the harbour at Blackpots, about eleven o'clock forenoon, for the purpose of bringing on shore their bag-net, which, owing to the violence of the surf, was apparently driving among the rocks, where it would have been soon torn to pieces. The coble was manned by four men, Charles Maclean, James Robertson, and two lads from Rosemarkie, near Cromarty, who, proceeding towards the net, the boat swung round broadside on to the wave, and was struck by a heavy sea, and three of the men precipitated into the water. One of them regained the boat, which had (relieved of the men) again righted, but was full of water. This young man being an excellent swimmer, rashly resolved, by the assistance of the boat, to clear himself of the incumbrance of his clothes, and swim on shore, which, having partly effected, the boat being then sunk to the gunwales, he left her to make the attempt; but the tide then running strong, and the surf very violent, he was soon exhausted, and with much difficulty reached the rocks, where he was dashed by a tremendous wave upon the very first rock he reached, and killed on the spot; his body has not yet been recovered. The two others, for a very brief space, were seen struggling violently in the surf, but soon disappeared. One of them kept hold of the boat, and drifted with her on shore, but so exhausted that up to this day (Monday) his recovery is doubtful. The two bodies recovered were decently interred in the church yard of Boyndie. Charles Maclean and James Robertson have left widows and families, in poor circumstances, to deplore their sudden and untimely fate. In the end we deem it fair to state, that the fishermen of Whitehills, on learning the catastrophe, hastened to the spot, boldly facing the raging surf, to afford assistance, so far as practicable; but we are sorry to say the fate of the unfortunate sufferers was sealed before their arrival.

If you want a copy of the image Gordon please send me an email address via a PM.

Looks like him,
Alan

kenspeckle
Posts: 178
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Location: born in Glasgow now living in Huon Valley Tasmania

Post by kenspeckle » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:58 am

been doing a bit of follow up the Pauper Jean Robertson b Forglen Banff c 1800 in 1861 census will not be her as there is a Jean Robertson b Forglen 1799 parents William Robertson & Mary Ingram

I am looking at Hugh Wallis IGI batch numbers as its easier to home in on an area and time frame there is a James Robertson but he is married to a Margaret Mc Kenzie and she also had a child with a Joseph Robertson ??? may have been an error in transcription ... Jean was pregnant when she married James Robertson I am not sure if she actually married the father of James & Elizabeth Watson/Urquhart so Kirk sessions would be good if there are any they would be in National Archives in Edinburgh

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... #PageTitle

I thought I had found him via National Archives Scotland as a James Robertson was in court for stealing and was transported but date 1831 just too early grrr
he certainly is a mystery man
http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/

Stastisical Account of Scotland for Boyndie says about the Salmon Fishing that it was done by Bagnets at Blackpotts near Whitehills and Salmon are Iced or Boiled Pickled with Vinegar and forwarded to the London maket
Also says that during the writers incumbency (Rev Alexander Anderson 1830 possibly till around 1843 ) in the parish are 8 women all except one having familes, deserted by their husbands
researching : Roddick, Stewart, Combe,Lyle , Wilkie, Budge, Kirkwood,Howat, McKinlay, Gunning, Gumprecht, Mirrlees, Muckersie, Greig, Moncrieff, Pattison, Hornibrook, Teape, Brockhoff,Buchanan,

kenspeckle
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:30 am
Location: born in Glasgow now living in Huon Valley Tasmania

Watson Urquhart link

Post by kenspeckle » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:08 am

Just found some more may be of interest on Roots Chat Whitehills, Boyndie, Banff, Family History Local also has a lister related to Jane Urquhart & James Watson ! see McCase who now live in California USA at bottom of page 1 and top of page 2
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... c=198925.0

also a person on this list who lives in Whitehills who may be able to help
regards Lesley in Tassie
researching : Roddick, Stewart, Combe,Lyle , Wilkie, Budge, Kirkwood,Howat, McKinlay, Gunning, Gumprecht, Mirrlees, Muckersie, Greig, Moncrieff, Pattison, Hornibrook, Teape, Brockhoff,Buchanan,

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