Musselburgh Place Leith (Edinburgh)

luciealexa · Post by **luciealexa** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:45 pm

Hi all
I hope someone may be able to help me. My Great-grandys were married in 1894 at Musselburgh Place, Leith.
As it was an Irregular Marriage I know i'm not looking for a church but in todays Edinburgh A-Z there's no musselburgh place in Leith.
I have done some internet searching but can't find any mention of a Musselburgh Place in the olden days.
Musselburgh Town Hall looked promising but it seems too far away to be registered in the Leith Area.

I want to visit the area and get a photo of the building they were married in and wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction of an old map which might have Musselburgh Place in it which I could compare to todays map.

Many thanks, Lucie

fionamurray · Post by **fionamurray** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:23 pm

Hello Lucie, Here is a link to old Edinburgh maps, but I can't see Musselburgh Place on it.

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_MAPS/0_ma ... .htm#start

best wishes
Fiona

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:42 pm

Hi Lucie,

Larger scale map of Leith herebut I aint finding Musselburgh Place. Maybe you'll have better luck.

I've even had a go at finding it at Ancestry and came up with nothing.

Best wishes,
Annette

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:48 am

Hello Lucie,

There’s no mention of a Musselburgh Place in 19C British Library Newspapers. However if you search the Scotsman Archive for Musselburgh Place Leith as an exact phrase you get 28 results between 1863 and 1950. I’m not sure I’d believe it though because it could be just the “very close proximity” thing working. http://archive.scotsman.com/search.cfm

Alan

rosieno1 · Post by **rosieno1** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:44 am

What exactly is meant by the expression "irregular marriage" - as used in the start up post of this discussion??

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:16 am

Hello Rosieno1
Welcome to [talkingscot]

An irregular marriage is one that was recognised by the kirk (church) although it was not one that was carried out by a minister. It was a marriage that was recognised by habit and repute, that is people would attest that they lived together as if they had been married by the church.
It was unique to Scotland.

this is just a quick explanation, someone may come along later and give a more detailed explanation.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:53 am

More on irregular marriages here:
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11070
in the TS Library

Best wishes
Lesley

rosieno1 · Post by **rosieno1** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:51 pm

Is it a corollary from this that members of the wide range of non established churches - were necessarily then married irregularly? For my own part, my forefathers seem to a man (and woman!) to have been Irish, and as far as I have found so far, to have been RC's - however i have found 2 marriages in the OPR records!

The first took place in 1826 in Falkirk - this being before catholic emancipation, and being an RC would have been (??) illegal. Was there any alternative - I know there were some RC churches in Scotland at that time - but the big expansion took place in the 1840's for obvious reasons. Would church marriages from that time(eg 1840's) have been irregular?? In that civil registration was not established at the time??

The second took place in Muiravonside in 1854, just prior to civil registration being introduced. Like all the other marriages on the page there are two dates - I guess the date the banns were read or notice was given, and also a marriage date. However in the case of my relatives alone (I think ) on a page of registrations, they are not noted as parishioners. Could this be an attempt to keep records accurate for the civil parish, as opposed to the religious parish ??

I would appreciate your opinions - and i'm sorry if the above is either jumbled, or unclear or both!!

ta Jane
- Im Rosies's (my mum XX) number 1 (eldest) girl!!

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:03 pm

Hi Jane

this being before catholic emancipation, and being an RC would have been (??) illegal.

An irregular marrriage was perfectly legal, just not considered as such by the Church of Scotland. If your family were RC it would not really have mattered what the local parish Church of Scotland thought, as that would not have been the church your folks were attending.

Although parish churches (CoS) were supposed to include the events for those in their parish who were not CoS, this did not seem to happen across the board, apart from which a charge would often be made to enter the event in the book, which would not exactly encourage those not from that church to pop in to have their names entered, even if they had been willing in spirit.

Statuatory Registration begain in 1855 in Scotland- this removed the responsibility for recording births marriages and deaths from the church. It was now a legal requirement to report BM&Ds to a registrar.

Best wishes
Lesley

luciealexa · Post by **luciealexa** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:19 pm

Thanks to all for the map and archives leads. I've been to Leith today for other photos (chilly) and had a good nose around for an old sign saying Musselburgh Place - ever the optomist - but no luck.

Further to the Irregular marriage, in the case of my Great Grandys, they had a child out of wedlock the year before they were married. This is why i presume they had an irregular marriage, and actually what made me look for the birth afterwards. (I read somewhere there was usually a reason for an Irregular Marriage) They were married by 'declaration' in front of a Ship's steward and an Able Seaman, friends I think.

Thanks again, I will post when I find Musselburgh Place!
Lucie

TalkingScot.com

Musselburgh Place Leith (Edinburgh)

Musselburgh Place Leith (Edinburgh)

I know it's not exactly related to the subject here but.....

thanks