Pitnacree House - Menzies / Stewarts / Jamaica

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paulpesda
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:24 pm

Pitnacree House - Menzies / Stewarts / Jamaica

Post by paulpesda » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:04 pm

I am researching Pitnacree House, Logierait, and I think I have managed to work out the following, which I hope is correct. Can anyone verify if this is what happened please?.

House was built roughly 1808-1810. Owner was Dr Archibald Menzies (1757-1820). He married Johanna Stewart (1786-1846) in Scotland in 1805. Then, they moved to Kingston, Jamaica between 1806-1810, where I presume he made his fortune with either merchant trade or slaves. During his time in Jamaica, they had 4 children :

(i) James Menzies (b.1806 Jamaica) see below*
(ii) Margaret Menzies (b.1807 Jamaica) see below**
(iii) Dr. Robert Menzies (1811-1860) see below***
and when they returned to Pitnacree,
(iv) Archibald Menzies (1814-1845) see below****

Father Archibald died at Pitnacree House on the 15 May 1820 and is buried in the family plot.

(i) James Menzies* (b.1806 Jamaica - d.1849 Scotland)
In 1833, her married Maria Elizabeth Menzies (b.1817 Jamaica- d.Scotland 1849) at Logierait, Perthshire. They had a son : Dr.James Alexander Menzies (b.1835 Logierait-d.1920 Wokingham). After his father's death in 1849, he clearly had to leave Pitnacree House, and by the 1851 census, he was with his 'aunt' in Rugby, England. ($$$ see notes below) He married Lavinia Elenor Schneider (b.1838 Essex-d.Wokingham 1910) in 1858. (Some say they married in Paris, others say Perthshire!) and had 6 children :
(i) Katherine Eleanor Menzies (b.1859 Guernsey -d.1939 Cheltenham) married ? Sleeman sometime between 1891 and 1901. He died before 1901 census.
(ii) Captain. Henry McDougall Robertson Menzies (b.1860 Eng-d.1902 Wokingham)
(iii) Major. Steuart Menzies (b.1862 Switzerland-d.1939 Cheltenham)
(iv) ??? Menzies (d.bef 1911)
(v) ??? Menzies
(vi) ??? Menzies
Dr James is buried with his father in the family plot at Pitnacree.

(ii) Margaret Menzies** (b&d.1807 Jamaica) - died as an infant.

(iii) Dr. Robert Menzies*** (b.1811 Jamaica-d.1860 Australia)
In 1838, he married Margaret Tindell (1817-1861) at Perth, before they both immigrated to New South Wales, Australia at the end of 1838, beginning of 1839. They had 4 daughters in Australia.

(iv) Archibald Menzies (b.1814 England-d.1845 Logierait) - died aged 30, unmarried.

James Menzies* wife, Maria Elizabeth Menzies (b.1817 Jamaica- d.1849 Scotland) - was the eldest daughter of Edward S Menzies (b.c.1786 London - d.1852 Scotland) and Mary Grant (b.1817-d.1898). After their marriage in London in 1816, they returned to Jamaica, where Edward was heavily involved with the slave trade. He was living at Paradise Pen, Kingston, Jamaica. They had many children, including :
(i) Maria Elizabeth Menzies (b.1817 Jamaica-d.1898 France)
(ii) Jane Frances Menzies (b.1819 Jamaica-d.1879 England - Somerset) - married James Ross.
(iii) Dr. Edward Stewart Menzies (b.1820 Jamaica-d.1904 New Zealand) Married twice, once in India and then in New Zealand. Had about 13 children between the 2 wives.
(iv) Agnes Mary Menzies (b.1828 London - d.?)
(v) Adelaide Margaret Menzies (b.1830 London-d.1910 New Zealand) stayed with sister Jane Frances Ross (née Menzies) in Perth 1871
(vi) Herbert Menzies (b.1833 Jamaica-d.? Australia) - stayed with sister Jane Frances Ross (née Menzies) in Perth 1871
(vii) Mary Harriet Menzies (b.1835 Jamaica -d.?)


$$$ On the 1841 Census, (despite their place of birth being noted at Scotland) James & Maria, and son James (6) were living at Pitnacree House. But also present at Pitnacree was a William Stewart aged 35 (b.c.1806) and Archibald Menzies aged 23 (1814-1845) - who was clearly father James' younger brother, who died soon after. There are other young Menzies present too.

In 1851, after his father's death in 1849, I have James and some relations, staying with his 'aunt' (noted as nephew) Grace Stewart (b.1800 Scotland), in Rugby, England. It appears as if she too immigrated to New South Wales, Australia, shorty afterwards, arriving around 1853. I note that that James's paternal grandmother, Johanna Menzies (née Stewart) (1786-1846) was a Stewart, and on the 1851, the head of the household is Grace Stewart (b.1799). She appears to be Johanna's sister, making, making James her great nephew. They'd be daughters of James Charles Stewart (1760-1821) and Margaret (née Menzies) (1752-1838), although 'Grace' must have originally been called 'Grizzle'. The other 'niece' is Jane Frances Menzies (b.1819 Jamaica d.1879 Bath). Her story makes sense as she married James Ross (b.1816) in Rugby, and remained in the Somerset area. The other 'niece' is Mary Harriet Menzies (b.1835 Jamaica), again a younger sister of Jane and Maria Elizabeth Menzies (née Menzies) - the mother of James, who was widowed and living alone in London in 1851. She then appears to have gone to India and re-married James Loch in Bengal, but she was back in Hove, Sussex with her son and his wife in 1891.

Do any of these name mean anything to you? I'm researching my McNaughton family, who lived for a while at near Pitnacree, and were gamekeepers. Sadly, the Menzies don't filter into our direct line, and we are not related to the Kenmore MacNaughton's who have their shop in Pitlochry.

Any ideas or history about the Jamaica Menzies or Pitnacree, would be welcomed. Thank you so much.

Paul

Billiegirl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:42 am

Re: Pitnacree House - Menzies / Stewarts / Jamaica

Post by Billiegirl » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:28 am

Hello Paul, I was researching Pitnacree Lodge quite a while back, which I believe is the house you're referring to. If it is, my people were staying there in 1805, so it seems it was standing earlier than you thought. In 1809 there was an advert "To Let Furnished" in the Caledonian Mercury (Thursday May 11) which says "Apply to Mr Colin Menzies at Pitnacree Lodge." It was to be let for one year or "for the season". Obviously a sporting lodge, and there's a good description of it in the newspaper.

Hope this helps, Billiegirl

Currie
Posts: 3674
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Pitnacree House - Menzies / Stewarts / Jamaica

Post by Currie » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:27 am

Thanks Billiegirl, I had completely forgotten about that. Here's the link.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=17682

Paul may also be interested in these items about the Menzies family.

Dundee Courier (Dundee), Tuesday, April 01, 1845.
DEATHS.
At Comley Bank, Perth, on the 22d ultimo, Mr Archibald Menzies, aged 30 years, youngest son of the late Archibald Menzies, Pitnacree.

The Morning Chronicle (London), Wednesday, June 9, 1858.
MARRIAGES.
On the 1st inst., at Pau, Basses, Pyrenees, James Menzies, Esq., of Pitnacree, N.B., to Lavinia Eleanor, third daughter of the late Robert Wilmot Schneider, Esq.

The Evening Telegraph (Dundee), Saturday, January 04, 1902.
The marriage arranged between Major Stewart Menzies, Royal Fusiliers, younger son of Dr. J. A. Menzies of Pitnacree, Perthshire, N.B., and Geraldine, daughter of the late Mr. Archibald Maxwell of Clevedon, Somerset, and Mrs. Maxwell, of Sunnyside, Cheltenham, will take place at Cheltenham during the present month.

The Fife Herald, Kinross, Strathearn and Clackmannan Advertiser, on Thursday, July 21, 1864, reported the death of a young woman who had gone missing. David M'Naughton, gamekeeper, Pitnacree, was involved in the search. This item appeared in many U.K. newspapers.

All the best,
Alan

Billiegirl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:42 am

Re: Pitnacree House - Menzies / Stewarts / Jamaica

Post by Billiegirl » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:28 am

That's great Alan, thanks for finding the link, I couldn't remember where that was posted!
I hope Paul finds all the info you have for him - I'm sure he'll be really chuffed :D

Best wishes, Billiegirl

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