Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

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Moray_Lass
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by Moray_Lass » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:31 pm

:-) Well that settles the Ownership of the ships - I was just wondering if it was owned by the Erskine Estate

I've tried running Archibald (Erskine) Robson and Robertson through National Libraries of Scotland and the Valuations on SP - nothing, was hoping for some mention of the Dreel/Drill property. Who inherited it on his death?

National Archives in London has his Will, which you already have, but there is something interesting under Archibald Erskine Robertson...
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... r/D8085201

Too late a date of birth, but curious coincidence of names and seaman - could this be a relative? Could also be a red herring. :lol:
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

matiasfortuno
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 pm

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by matiasfortuno » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:43 pm

Moray_Lass wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:14 pm

In the OPR does it mentiuon the witnesses? Could 7th Earl be AER's Godfather? They named the baby after their boss to keep in his good graces and asked him to be witness/godfather? Allot of the time the child has the same first name as the witnesses.
Your intuition was right! Archibald Erskine 7th Earl of Kellie was indeed Archbald Robertson' baptism witness, along with sir John Sinclair.

Thanks!

WilmaM
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by WilmaM » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:10 am

Good, that fills in some more details.
I wonder who Sir John Sinclair was?
Having such titled witnesses will probably answer your questions of where he got the money or influence from.

We often think of 'servants' as being lowly workers, low paid and with little prospects.
However the reality is they filled many roles in the running of a large estate.

Do you know what Charles Robertson did for Lord Kellie?

WilmaM
Posts: 1648
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by WilmaM » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:02 pm

There are deaths for Charles and Margaret in the OPRs:

ROBERTSON CHARLES ----- 82 M 20/07/1827 413/ 40 254 Carnbee
ROBERTSON MARGARET PIERIE / CHARLES ROBERTSON 65 F 16/08/1821 413/ 40 245 Carnbee

matiasfortuno
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 pm

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by matiasfortuno » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:37 pm

What I've learned so far (thanks for your help)

1. There is indeed some relation on Archibald Ersinke, 7th Earl of Kellie (AE7), and "my" AER. Some clues arose, like the property, "Drill house", or Dreel, follows a path very near to Kellie.
2. A new possibility is "born": that my AER my be the son of the servants of AE7. Here is the baptism document: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BOE2Y8 ... sp=sharing

So, here are some questions left

1. I'm still not convinced, that a "servant son" can become a wealthy person (in 1800's). Reviewing AE7 testament, is not that much he gives to his employees, 40 pound a year. (look https://www.in2013dollars.com/uk/inflat ... ?amount=40), and to Archbald, some Oats.

Hope you can share your opinion on this.

2. As a bonus, what is "Sir John Sinclair" doing as a witness of Archbald Robertson's baptism?? Please correct me if I am wrong: I understand that at the time, the title "Sir" was not given to everyone. So, there is one "Sir John Sinclair", who existed during that time. (He is in wikipedia).

Thanks again

matiasfortuno
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 pm

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by matiasfortuno » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:21 pm

Well, I now sure that AER, was born. Archbald Robertson. This in conclusion that on his will, he mentions a nephew, named Charles Christie. I've found out about a Charles Christie, born of Marrion Robertson (That would be the child of Charles Robertson and Margaret Pirrie this, is, sister of AER).

SO, in conclusion, my ancestor AER was a very strong man, was son of Kellie' servant, and managed to captain a ship, travel half the world, start the nitrate business around here.

Thanks for your help.

I'll leave the investigation about "Sir John Sinclair" as a witness for AER baptism ... for another time.

Moray_Lass
Posts: 187
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Location: Moray

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by Moray_Lass » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:21 pm

Question is who is this Sir John Sinclair? If AER was a 'godson' to both Archibald and Sir John they could have gifted him money and/or land when he turned 21 or something. Finding proof could be harder - maybe in the Erskine or Sinclair family papers? Identifying Sir John and his will might shine a little more light.

Oh! found the 6th Earl of Kellie and a Sir John Sinclair both involved in the Enlightenment - which could be a connection between the 2 houses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Enlightenment
6th Earl was brother to 7th Earl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Er ... _of_Kellie

There is a Sinclair Barony in Fife
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_ ... _(c._1675)

Anyone else got any ideas how to identify Sir John?
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

WilmaM
Posts: 1648
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by WilmaM » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:21 pm

It think we've uncovered an astonishing amount of information in a very short time, especially given the time period.

Who knows what further information could come to light if we just dig in the right spots.

Looking for information on his parents' deaths may help - what was Charles' standing in Kellie Castle?
He was no ordinary servant, or stablehand it seems.

Looking too at the previous Earl's affairs - Thomas Alexander Erskine was the elder brother of 'our' earl, and died in 1781 - could help too.
He held high office in Masonic circles, as well as musical talent.

I wonder about gravestones too? they can sometimes hold an wealth of information.

GenUk page on Carnbee parish
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/FIF/Carnbee
indicates there are various records held in various places that could eb worth following up.
Obituaries
Andrew Campbell has produced Fife Deaths from Newspapers 1822-1854 - a compilation of deaths recorded in local newspapers. Copies of this index are held by the Fife libraries and the Family History Societies.
looks promising if Charles did indeed die in 1827.

matiasfortuno
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 pm

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by matiasfortuno » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:30 pm

Moray_Lass wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:21 pm

Oh! found the 6th Earl of Kellie and a Sir John Sinclair both involved in the Enlightenment - which could be a connection between the 2 houses
Here is a story that links Thomas Erskine and Sir John Sinclair:
https://books.google.com/books?id=5lftH ... ie&f=false

matiasfortuno
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 pm

Re: Help proving or disproving hypothesis regarding Archibald Erskine, 7th Earl of Kellie

Post by matiasfortuno » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:00 pm

WilmaM wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:21 pm
Looking for information on his parents' deaths may help - what was Charles' standing in Kellie Castle?
He was no ordinary servant, or stablehand it seems.
Here is a story with Charles Robertson working for Alexander Erskine , 5th Earl of Kellie, father of AE7.

https://books.google.com/books?id=IVQLA ... 22&f=false
Update: the book " our old neighbours" can be downloaded here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... Rdl5vhO1-5


It seems funny, but I don't understand it ...
Last edited by matiasfortuno on Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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