Decyphering a death reg

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billymac
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by billymac » Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:32 am

AndrewP wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:15 am
No - still not showing any image. Just a message saying that the image does not exist, or has been deleted.

AndrewP
For the life of me I don't know what I'm doing wrong. One last attempt at posting a link ](*,) ](*,)

https://imgur.com/VQMoorC

AndrewP
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Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by AndrewP » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:28 am

Hi Bill,

The image is there by your latest link. =D> =D> =D> =D>

I would say her maiden surname is given as "Gye". All of this registrar's words end with a last letter with a long tail, so I don't think there is an "r" on the end.

However, you need to use some latitude regarding the spelling when searching further, starting with (but not limited to) "Guy" if nothing shows up under "Gye".

All the best,

AndrewP

billymac
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by billymac » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:54 am

AndrewP wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:28 am
Hi Bill,

The image is there by your latest link. =D> =D> =D> =D>

I would say her maiden surname is given as "Gye". All of this registrar's words end with a last letter with a long tail, so I don't think there is an "r" on the end.

However, you need to use some latitude regarding the spelling when searching further, starting with (but not limited to) "Guy" if nothing shows up under "Gye".

All the best,

AndrewP
Aha!! Thank you Andrew. All my searches using variations of what I thought I could see yielded no result. Not having the deceased's father's christian name was an additional handicap as well.

Moray_Lass
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by Moray_Lass » Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:48 pm

Going back the the G* idea I just ran a quick search on Family Search; Jane Ross born 1805-1815, Father * Ross, Mother Jane * and came up with

Jane Ross
13 Nov 1815 Alves Moray - F James Ross, M Jane Gill

Janet Ross
28 July 1814 Duthil Invernessshire F Colin Ross M Jane Grant

Jannet Ross
2 Jan 1809 Keith Banffshire F James Ross M Jannet Gordon

Janet Ross
15 Oct 1806 Cromdale Invernesshire F William Ross M Jean Gordon

Janet Ross
27 Feb 1815 Auchterarder Perthishire F Robert Ross M Janet Gibson

That might not be a complete list and more might turn up on SP but nowhere near the 'Gye' name. Where did she marry and does it say where she came from? (In this Parish or somewhere else?)
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

nelmit
Posts: 3962
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by nelmit » Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:59 pm

I managed to get the image too but not anywhere with the surname.

Searching everywhere for anything like it comes up with nothing.

According to census records Jane/Jean Ross was born at Dalkeith, Midlothian around 1809 but a submitter at Ancestry has her born around 1801 and married before to John Menzies. Daughter, according to them, Jean is his daughter born at Dalkeith.

1851 Census

James Smith 43
Jean Smith 42 born, Dalkeith, Midlothian
Jean Smith 27 born Dalkeith, Midlothian
Willm Smith 22 born Dalkeith, Midlothian
Mary Smith 15 born, Longforgan, Perth
Alexr Smith 12
Ann Smith 10
Willm Melvil 2

On the 1871 census her age is given as 72.

Still doesn't help though even if it is right.

Regards,
Annette

billymac
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by billymac » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:33 am

Moray_Lass wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:48 pm
Going back the the G* idea I just ran a quick search on Family Search; Jane Ross born 1805-1815, Father * Ross, Mother Jane * and came up with

Jane Ross
13 Nov 1815 Alves Moray - F James Ross, M Jane Gill

Janet Ross
28 July 1814 Duthil Invernessshire F Colin Ross M Jane Grant

Jannet Ross
2 Jan 1809 Keith Banffshire F James Ross M Jannet Gordon

Janet Ross
15 Oct 1806 Cromdale Invernesshire F William Ross M Jean Gordon

Janet Ross
27 Feb 1815 Auchterarder Perthishire F Robert Ross M Janet Gibson

That might not be a complete list and more might turn up on SP but nowhere near the 'Gye' name. Where did she marry and does it say where she came from? (In this Parish or somewhere else?)
Thank you for your input "Moray Lass" I have her death registration that gives her age at 63 when she died in 1873. But I have come to think this age (as given by her son, the informant) may not be correct. This would have her born circa 1810. "MatiasFortuno" who had a few excess credits kindly purchased a 1871 census result for Jane. It was the correct people and that shows her age as 72 years. So she is Jane Ross who must have married a fellow named Menzies then married a shoemaker James Ross (details as per her son's death reg.) She was born in Dalkeith circa 1800. I have her and her 2nd husband's marriage to James (it mentions he is a shoemaker) in 1828 ---- oddly despite the previous marriage she is "Jane Ross". There is a marriage between a John Menzies and Jean Ross 9th November 1821 in Dalkeith, Edinburghshire (is this the same Dalkeith?)
Regards,
Bill
Last edited by billymac on Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

billymac
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by billymac » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:53 am

nelmit wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:59 pm
I managed to get the image too but not anywhere with the surname.

Searching everywhere for anything like it comes up with nothing.

According to census records Jane/Jean Ross was born at Dalkeith, Midlothian around 1809 but a submitter at Ancestry has her born around 1801 and married before to John Menzies. Daughter, according to them, Jean is his daughter born at Dalkeith.

1851 Census

James Smith 43
Jean Smith 42 born, Dalkeith, Midlothian
Jean Smith 27 born Dalkeith, Midlothian
Willm Smith 22 born Dalkeith, Midlothian
Mary Smith 15 born, Longforgan, Perth
Alexr Smith 12
Ann Smith 10
Willm Melvil 2

On the 1871 census her age is given as 72.

Still doesn't help though even if it is right.

Regards,
Annette
Hello Annette,
That certainly looks like the family although the ages are slightly off. Although I don't have the census image, James, who was a shoemaker, is shown as being 70 in the 1871 census so he should be 51 odd in the '51 census. Jane, 73 in the 1871 census should be 53 odd (she is shown as "Jane Ross Smith").They did have a son Alexander (my wife's ancestor) born April 1840 (Liff/Benvie/Invergowie) so age should be roughly 11 and a daughter Ann who is still with them in the "81 census at 28 ---- so should be 11 or so.
The possible Menzies marriage you mentioned was on Ancestry doesn't quite gel with the family above ---- Jane/Jean would have been only 14/15 when she married and had the daughter "Jean Smith". If the ages were 53 and 52 the scenario would fit nicely.
I like to have documentation when chasing ancestors so I am certain of where I am going with the chase. I have seen things on Ancestry that were very inconsistent but spread like wildfire through family trees.

billymac
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by billymac » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:40 am

Here is what I think I "know"
Jane Ross, born Dalkeith, Perthshire circa 1801 (from 1871 census), married John Menzies, Dalkeith, 9th November 1821 (Church records 638/ 110 13) and they had a daughter, Jean Menzies, born Dalkeith 28/1/1823 (Church record 683/ 100 55).
Sometime between 1823 and 1828 John Menzies must have died and Jane Ross married James Smith 22md June 1828.
I know Jane and James Smith had a son Alexander, (born Liff,Benvie, Invergowie), 3rd April 1840 (my wife's ancestor ---- I have his birth, marriage and death registrations).
In the 1851 census (kindly per Annette) the daughter, Jean Menzies, seems to have adopted the Smith surname. It also appears that Jane Ross and James Smith had a son William, born Dalkeith (Church record 683/ 100 147), born 15th December 1828 (possible death, Dalkeith, 1875) and Mary born Longforgan, 20th December 1835 (Church record 377/ 40 95). Additionally they seem to have had another daughter Elizabeth, born Dalkeith, 20th February 1831 (Church record 683/ 100 179). Then Alexander was born followed by Ann, born same place as Alexander (Liff, Benvie, Invergowie) 23rd July 1841 (Church record 301/ 40 157).

The variation in name with Janet/Jane/Jean was a bit disconcerting. I'm surprised she wasn't also a "Jessie" :D

While all the relationships fall into place some of the ages don't quite tally so a bit more digging/verifying is required.
So far as the Gye/Gyer search is concerned I am no closer but thanks to the very helpful members here I certainly know a lot more than I did two days ago.
Just need to verify a few things now.
Last edited by billymac on Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

AndrewP
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Re: Decyphering a death reg

Post by AndrewP » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:31 pm

Hi Billy,

Dalkeith is in Midlothan, sometimes referred to as the County of Edinburgh in older documents. This is confirmed by your document numbers starting 683 - the parish number for Dalkeith, Midlothian in the numbering system initiated by the General Register Office for Scotland (and continued into ScotlandsPeople and the National Records of Scotland).

All the best,

AndrewP

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