Frederick Bartlett

[frances]

Thank you all for your efforts. I have sent an email to our cousin in Canada suggesting that she logs on to TS and reads for herself what a wonderful group of people the TS family are.

Always full of good advice and help --- you are all stars =D>

Kinds regards

Frances

[Currie]

FindMyPast has a likely suspect in their military records.
BARTLETT Frederick 1879 Portsmouth, Hampshire WO97 Chelsea
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/army ... ecords/all

Nova Scotia Vital records. https://novascotiagenealogy.com/
Delayed registration of Birth.
Seymour Edward Bartlett, born March 10, 1906, Halifax N.S.
Father: Frederick Bartlett, Mother: Mina V. Rissey, parents married.
Residence of father when child born: Halifax N.S.
Father’s occupation: Engineer. Born: Portsmouth
Present address of father: Deceased
Application made by what looks like Mrs. Mina V Murna or Muma
(the printing is small and very difficult to read) These documents are dated 1958.

There’s a letter from a Government official attached certifying that:
In 1911 census “Seymore Bartlet” age 5, was living on section 32, township 19, range 28, West of the Second, with “John and Valetta Halliday”.
In 1916 census “Seymour Halliday”, age 10, was living in Township 19, Range 28, West of the Second, with “John and Ealetta Halliday”.

A document signed by a J.P. stating that he had examined the family bible of Frederick Bartlett and Mina V Bartlett, and it contained the record of birth of Seymour F. Bartlett, on March 10. 1906.

1911 Census transcription at Automated Genealogy.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/
Province: Saskatchewan, District: Moose Jaw, Subdistrict: townships 18, Enumeration district: 19, Page 18.
Colin Halliday, head, age 33.
Valetta Halliday, wife, age 27.
Crolyn Halliday, daughter, age 1.
Seymore Bartlat, s. son, age 5.

I wonder if Mina’s middle initial V is for Valetta.

Alan

[Anne H]

Alan, he is indeed found on Find My Past.

I don't know anything about him dying at sea, Frances.

He was discharged from service in the Royal Engineers on 21 March 1909.
According to his service record, he married Minnie Rissie in Halifax on 16 Mar 1905 (no children mentioned)
Next of Kin was father, Frederick R. Bartlett, 32 Toronto Road, Buckland, Portsmouth (no mother's name mentioned)
Sister, Caroline 33 Cooper Road, Kingston, Hants (deceased)
Wife's address unknown

If you want the document, let me know.

Regards,
Anne H

[Linda DesRoches]

Hello Everyone, I am Linda. Thank you so much for your replies. My dear cousin Frances started this inquiry for me. I have just registered and am jumping in now. I have read all the posts and am surprised how you found this information so quickly. I'll try to answer some of your questions.

I understand Fredrick was with the Royal Engineers according to his marriage registration to Wilhelmina (Mina) Valetta Rissey - my great grandmother. The 18th Company and 40th Company Royal Engineers left Halifax on the 5 of March, and the 48 Company left on the 12 May 1906 for Esquimalt, BC. I don't know which company he was with. Together Mina and Frederick had one son, Seymour, who is described in this thread and did indeed have a late birth registation that you located on Nova Scotia Geneology. Seymour was my great uncle. Seymour never married. He had no children. 'F Bartlett' is listed one time only in the McAlpine Directory of Nova Scotia - the directory dated 1907 1908. The directory was published sometime during 1908. Mina's mother (Annie Rissey, wid John, Nurse) is listed at the same address in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Maybe Frederick never actually lived in the home when the record was created, it may have been just Mina, Seymour and her mother - just a guess. Neither Mina, Annie nor Frederick are listed in the McAlpine Halifax directory after the 1907 1908 edition. On Annie's 1932 death registration it states that Annie was in the province of Saskatchewan 24 years. Mina was the informant. It appears they left for Saskatchewan about 1908.

After he 'died at sea', Mina married Mr. John Halliday in Saskatchewan (I presume they married in Saskatchewan Canada as that is where John's homestead was). Her first child with John was born April 1910 in Keeler Saskatchewan (parents John Halliday and Valatte Rissey). I have a copy of the birth registration. The child is Evelyn Halliday. She was baptized June 26, 1910 (parents John Halliday and Valette Halliday). I have a copy of the baptism certificate. I also have a photocopy of Mina's journal which has had written "Dad H gave me this in 1910". The hand writing is very shaky so I believe she wrote it when she was older. I am gathering that the "H" is Halliday. Maybe it was a wedding gift or 'something old'. Because of the birthdate of Evelyn and the journal date, I am assuming they married in 1910. John Halliday and Mina had 9 children together while living in Saskatchewan. Much later, after John died, Mina married Mr. Muma.

I don't know much about Frederick's family except that his mother was Frances (Fanny) Stubbs (born August 1854 Portsmouth, Hampshire, England) and his father was Frederick Bartlett (born London, Middlesex, England).

He had sisters Carolyn and Emily. (England and Wales Census, 1881, pg 76, Portsea, Hampshire, England).

I saw that a grand child named Carolyn was living with Frederick's parents .(1901 Census England and Wales Census)

I am curious to know about Frederick Bartlett. Did he really die at sea - as the family story goes.

Thanks for all your help. I sure appreciate it. Linda

[frances]

Hi Linda,

So glad that you have joined the TS family, I am sure that like me you will find everyone involved always so willing to help and offer advice-- Hope that you can solve the mystery of Frederick soon.

Love

Frances

[Anne H]

Hi Linda, and a warm welcome to TalkingScot!

I had a look for Frederick on the 1911 census on the chance he might have survived and found a Frederick Bartlett, married and a carpenter's mate in the Navy, your Frederick was also a carpenter/joiner, unfortunately not the Frederick born in Portsmouth, but so close.

I did however find his parents, Frederick and Fanny along with their 13-year old grand daughter, Carolyn Hulbert (Kulbret) still in Portsmouth.

If you want more information from these documents, send me a PM with your email address.

Regards,
Anne H

[Currie]

Hello Linda, and Welcome from me as well.

Thanks to Anne for her info from the service record. I’ve also been informed that it seems to be saying that he returned to the UK on 27 December, 1905, and was there until his discharge, which was after exactly 12 years service, being what was required to qualify for a pension. It seems also that he married without the permission of his Commanding Officer, which probably meant that the Army would not have made any contribution towards his wife’s upkeep and accommodation or even passage if she wanted to travel anywhere with him.

Mina was about six months pregnant when she married Mr. Bartlett. The worst case scenario may be that he was a bit of a Cad and abandoned her just a couple of weeks later never to return. However there are passenger records at various places that may or may not be relevant and that may cast a bit more light on things.

AncestorsOnBoard has a Fred Bartlett, dob unknown, heading off to Halifax in 1910. http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passengerLi ... art.action

Ancestry’s UK Incoming Passenger lists has an F. Bartlett, from Halifax to Liverpool, but won’t show a non-subscriber any more. http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/s ... x&uidh=000

There’s also a variety of them on their Canadian Passenger lists. http://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse.d ... x&uidh=000

Between the earliest possible death date, that is after the discharge from the Army, and the most usual likely marriage date, if there was one, to Mr Halliday, there’s hardly any time at all. I tried to check for a Saskatchewan marriage on the site mentioned here but it doesn’t want to load for me. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cansk ... n/bmd.html

I think Directories tend to be out of date because it takes so long to gather the information etc. The 1907-08 Directory may have had 1906 info.

Hope I haven’t got any of that backwards,
Alan

[Anne H]

Alan,

Your research skills never cease to amaze me!

I'll have a look at the passenger records to see what comes up.

Regards,
Anne H

[SarahND]

However there are passenger records at various places that may or may not be relevant and that may cast a bit more light on things.

Hi all,
I had a quick look at the passenger records on Ancestry and there is really only one that sounds as if it could be the right person:

4 Mar 1940 arrival F Bartlett is one of three "Naval Convoy Staff," specifically a "Yeoman of Signals." No indication of his age.

That's pretty late...

The earlier ones were mostly the same labourer/railway stoker going to Winnipeg.

Hope someone else will find something more definitive. The discharge in 1909 does seem to indicate that he did not die when he was said to have died...

Regards,
Sarah

[Anne H]

I'm afraid the one from Find My Past for 1910 bound for Halifax doesn't give much information...
Passenger No. 6149, Fred Bartlett, Lab. traveling with wife Mrs. A. Bartlett

There is also a Fred Bartlett born 1878 bound for Canada but with a wife's name of Marjorie...if it is him, he's now a citizen of the USA...
Passenger No. W.514772, landing in Montreal and in transit from France, born 9.5.78, RTD(retired?).

The only other Fred I can find departed Liverpool 1911 bound for Montreal...
Passenger No. 21806, Fred Bartlett, Lab. He was traveling alone.

So, not much help in solving Fred's whereabouts with any of these, I'm afraid.

Regards,
Anne H