1841 Kellythorn Census .....

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:43 pm

emanday wrote:Gosh, sorry about that; enthusiasm for my increasing skills on P'Shop got the better of me

I've cut out the correct one and changed it to a negative view. I can only say that the first letter is probably an E as an E(lizabeth) on the other page has a similar look to it

http://www.esnips.com/doc/ba87f1cf-a4a6 ... image2.bmp

Nae prob, many of us on TS are used to "senior moments"

Thanks for the negative version, which changes my mind.

What I took as dots over a couple of "i"s aren't, - they're an artifact of the microfilm or digitising procedure, - and I now concur with ADP's most insightful "Gardenaid" - written as one word.

David

Post by **SarahND** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:12 pm

Hello all,
I went to the Old Professions site, as I'm sure you all did also, and tried to make it fit "girnalman", but couldn't see it. So... and this is pretty far out, so take it with a grain of salt, I went to the OED online and typed in "Gaid" which I would agree with David is how it begins. Here is what came up:

gaid, gade
Sc. Obs. exc. Hist. (that's Scots, Obsolete except history)

1. A bar of metal; esp. the iron bar which formerly crossed the condemned cell in a Scotch prison, upon which ran the iron ring which fastened the shackles.

There is this old quotation:

1682 PEDEN in Biogr. Presbyt. (1838) I. 51 Their Theats will burn, and their Swingletrees will fall to the Ground..and the Gade-men will throw away their Gades.

So what do you think of "Gaidman"?

Umm... so what did he DO? He took the goad and hustled prisoners? cows? goats? along with it.

Well, I tried. Maybe he WAS a gardener!
Sarah

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:59 pm

Has everyone realised that this census entry is for Bethnal Green in Tower Hamlets in London with what looks like a "Y" as the answer to "Born in the County?".

Rather neat, methinks, for a Scottish focused site to be accorded the accolade being asked to interpret an English census entry

$\:D/$

David

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:00 pm

emanday wrote:As soon as it is approved, I have also uploaded the full image in negative format. Sometimes they are easier to read and having the whole thing to compare with might help with the deciphering.

I've called it Kellythorn Census negative

Image approved - see http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-688

emanday

Can you please point us in the direction of the best software that you're aware of for carrying out this reversal operation, and guidance on how to do it.

David

Post by **SarahND** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:22 pm

DavidWW wrote:Has everyone realised that this census entry is for Bethnal Green in Tower Hamlets in London with what looks like a "Y" as the answer to "Born in the County?".

Didn't even look!

I guess they wouldn't have been using an obsolete Scots word for the profession then

Sarah

Post by **emanday** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:35 pm

Believe it or not, David, you can do the same thing in MS Paint

Open the image in Paint, click on Image, then Invert Colours on the drop down menu.

It's pretty pathetic really as a graphics prog, but at least it can do that

Wee Ina · Post by **Wee Ina** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:22 pm

Wow and what can i say but a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone for your imput on this one.

I never actually thought about changing a census to negative format before - i will keep this in mind for some of the other tricky ones that i possess and have yet to have look at. The James Kellythorn on the other page is infact Philips Dad (he was lying about his age 2nd wife and all that ).

Thanks again to everyone for all there advice - Kellythorn is my married name and i am actually doing this side of the tree for my kids.

Doing this research i have discovered that even although some dont want to be - all Kellythorn/Kellythorne/Killythorn's are connected. That includes any in the USA/AUS.

Many thanks once again for all your help.

Wee Ina

Post by **AnneM** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:16 pm

Hi Ina

I reckon it does not say anything more exciting than Gardener! What appears to be a down stroke at the end is just some kind of mark.

Anne

Post by **emanday** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:54 pm

Now, I know you are all going to think I have finally gone nuts, but...

In the 1841 census Philip is at 6 Green Gate.
At 4 Green Gate are James Kellythorn et al.

Both households seem to be predominently Box makers or Boot binders (my gaff with the image and the Pasteboard maker would seem to fit in with box makers).

With me so far?

Well, the family at 6 Green Gate where Philip is living are in shoe making too, right?

Could that word be Gaiter(something)? As in the gaiters, most often made by shoemakers, that were worn over shoes? These things went in and out of fashion, so he might then have changed to costermonger, which he appears to have remained doing.

Nuts?

Wee Ina · Post by **Wee Ina** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:23 pm

Done a bit more research on this one

In the 1851 Census Philip was a Coater Monger
in 1861 - he must have fallen off the planet but returned as
In the 1871 Census Philip was a Coater Monger
In 1881 he was a Hawker

a search defined a Coater Monger as tough breed of market traders
he died in 1882

I think it would be reasonable to take it for granted that Philip was in the same profession in 1841 and that the census take was just winging it !

Thanks again to everyone at TS for all your help.

Wee Ina