Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Southern part of Great Britain

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familytree
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by familytree » Tue May 20, 2014 4:05 pm

O:) hello I have only just joined I have been researching my ggg grandmother Elizabeth blackney we went to chiselhurst yesterday to view the headstones I may be alble to shed some light on your query the name on the tomb is Edward and Elizabeth ellis who died by the hand of an assassin im not sure yet what the conection is with the blackney family hope this will be of some help maria

Lorna Allison
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by Lorna Allison » Tue May 20, 2014 7:08 pm

Hello Maria

Well this is exciting! First of all welcome to Talking Scot. I have had such a lot of help here and enjoyed the fun as well.

Amazingly, I beat you by one week to Chislehurst - pity we couldn't have met up. Yes isn't the flat slab gravestone very impressive? Did you notice the primrose plant? Brought specially from Scotland - if they were already dead don't tell me :D . You refer to the inscription on the one side of the pitched surface of the stone and you would no doubt read the other side which referred to Mary Ellis who died 1871. I did a lot of researching prior to my visit to Chislehurst and discovered that Mary, Edward's first wife was in fact Mary Blackney, daughter of Thomas Blackney and Mary Davis.

Mary was the mother of Edward's children (Poor Elizabeth had only been married to him for 4 years when they were murdered). Their youngest daughter Harriet married Richard Thomas Blackney who was in fact her cousin - he was the son of Mary's brother Richard.

Had it not been for Annette of Talking Scot O:) O:) who found details of Edward's marriage to Elizabeth Bullingham I would never have thought of looking up the Edward Ellis who had married a Mary in the same church, St George, Hanover Square. There is a copy of the parish register online and there they were, having a double wedding \:D/ Mary Blackney and brother Samuel marrying on the same day and acting as witnesses for each other. They are down as having belonged to "this parish" and that kind of bemuses me.

I had the most wonderful time in Chislehurst, stayed at the Bull's Head where the inquiry into the murder took place and did a LOT of walking. Visited the National Trust forrester who lives in the Ellis's cottage (looks just as it did in the illustrations in the Police Gazette). Everyone so very helpful from Chislelhurst Society to St Nicholas Church and more.

A trip to remember and now YOU. Send me a pm (private message) via Talking Scot and tell me which Elizabeth you are related to - I've got eight in the Blackneys. Maybe you are from the Ellis side are you? Hope to hear from you soon.

Kind regards

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

Lorna Allison
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by Lorna Allison » Tue May 20, 2014 7:14 pm

Hi

A quick post script. I see you are related to the Blackneys, Maria. I am the aforementioned Harriet Ellis and Richard Thomas Blackney's gt grandchild. Very interested to see where you fit in.

Kind regards

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

familytree
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by familytree » Wed May 21, 2014 8:12 am

O:) hello lorna im a little confused now and hope I haven't got things wrong unless Elizabeth blackney married twice in her short live ive got it wrong it was my belive she married nehimah bartley my connection is the bartley side her son Alfred collett bartley was my gg granddad the only other child she had from that marriage was Thomas born in Berwick thank you for replying hope to speak to you soon maria

familytree
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by familytree » Wed May 21, 2014 8:30 am

#-o hello lorna its me again sorry ignore the first reply I was confused wasn't I after rereading I realised it was elizabeths sister mary that married Edward now it slots into place thank you for helping with that connection maria

Lorna Allison
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by Lorna Allison » Wed May 21, 2014 11:02 am

Hi Maria

I am very interested in that Elizabeth Blackney, second wife of Nehemiah Bartley, and have been searching once again for young Thomas born Berwick 1843. I discovered in Chislehurst that although he was born there he was actually baptised in St Nicholas, Chislehurst. You will probably know that Thomas slots in between Nehemiah's first two children born to Caroline Sendall/Bendall. Clearly Nehemiah was a bit of a ladies man but he did marry Caroline after Elizabeth died in 1846.

I would love to know what happened to Thommas do you have any info? I have only found a Thomas of the right age an apprentice on the ship Tartar on the Thames in 1861 census. It is not RN Tartar (although that was there at the same time prior to going off to China for 5 years, as it just has Captain, mate, 2 seamen and 4 apprentices. Can't think that would be Thomas, the solicitor's son, but maybe he ran away from home? That Thomas is down as born in Lewisham, Kent and he might well have thought he was born there since he was baptised there. Can't find him in any other census and no death. I suppose he could have died at sea. Anyway I don't think I can track down seamen readily by the looks of things. Nehemiah would take Elizabeth up to Berwick I think to disguise the fact that she was 5 months pregnant when married don't you think? I know there were family business interests in a colliery in the area.

Looking up the Bartleys I found that Nehemiah's grandfather a distiller in Bristol, also Nehemiah, features with his 16 year old wife Sarah Trout as a "Runaway marriage" in an online publication for St Katherine's, Haddington. That seems to have been where the "great and the good" got married maybe they thought Gretna Green was downmarket :shock:

All fascinating stuff. Please do let me know if you have anything further on Thomas.

Great to be in touch

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

familytree
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by familytree » Thu May 22, 2014 10:23 am

O:) hello lorna sorry I cant really help with Thomas I got as far as you did with him there is one thing when I was on ancestery.co on the side comes people that may be connected there was a George Thomas trout bartley not sure what the conection is will have to look into it at some point also st George hanover sq rings a bell had a quick look at info I have got found nothing I will have to get back to that on a different note I was curious what nehimah was doing in Berwick thought maybe there was family there didn't know about the colliery when nehimah and Elizabeth went there to my knowledge nehimah was not married then his 1st wife mary ann lucas died june 1838 he married Elizabeth may 1843 they must have met when in the 1841 censuses they were living down the same st Elizabeth died may 1846 he married caroline sept 1846 he wasted no time the intresting thing is that one of nehimahs children ellen b1842 the mum was caroline dount know where they both were inbetween 43 and 46 before they got married when caroline died she left everything to john Theodore bartley and nothing to her 1st born ellen who was working as a servant I found that a bit strange they are an intriguing family and feel there is still quiet a bit to find out how I enjoy putting the pieces together :D will get back to you soon all the best maria

familytree
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by familytree » Thu May 22, 2014 10:28 am

:idea: hello lorna meant to mention maybe Thomas added to his name or changed or rearranged it knew st George hanover sq rang a bell 1881 censuses there is a George c t bartley born the same year as Thomas but down as different area and the reg district for that censuses is st George sq hanover maria

familytree
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by familytree » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:14 am

O:) hello lorna dount think you have been online lately hope you get to read this theres a couple of things firstly our elusive Thomas bartley I stumbled upon a website yardworks files.wordpress (Victorian yardworks) there is a picture of paperwork for the tartar4 there is not a lot of info on it but it does have the name of the master but can not understand the writing the vessel went to Australia not sure what the year was but at least there is some trace of the boat I also stumbled upon a strange thing Samuel blackneys daughter mary married a man called Obadiah leney they lived at brasted kent she died in 1818 in 1873 I know I have jumped a few years there was a policeman by the name of Israel may aged 37 he was murdered at turnpike gate just along the road from the bull hotel pub he was a lodger at a blacksmiths there is still quiet a bit of work to be done to find if there is any connection if any at all :lol: or maybe im reading to much into it and being a miss marple hope to hear from you maria

Lorna Allison
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Re: Double murder in Petts Wood, nr Bromley

Post by Lorna Allison » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:18 pm

Hello Maria

I have sent you an email re our Blackney/Bartley connection so that we can follow through off the forum.

Sorry to have left you hanging fire for a bit :-

Regards

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

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