PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Southern part of Great Britain

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arthurk
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by arthurk » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:12 am

OK, it will be interesting to see how this progresses.
Kennedy (PER > LKS > ARM > England); Campbell, Rutherford, McDonald, Sinclair (all PER)
Wilson, Millar (RFW & LKS); Duncan (LKS); Hastings (KKD) (all > WRY)

barnsleymeth2000
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:31 pm

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by barnsleymeth2000 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:26 pm

I have ordered a copy of the birth cert for Rosalie and a cousin says Liverpool as place of birth. Still awaiting cert.

barnsleymeth2000
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:31 pm

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by barnsleymeth2000 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:09 am

I ordered a copy of the birth cert for Rosalie Kirkham and it says born 1 12 1925 and her parents were Charles Kirkham and Rose Emma Kirkham MS Hunt. Birth registered by R E Kirkham. Charles was a general labourer. Living at Howley Street Liverpool. Do you think this is the one I have been looking for. Thanks for all your hints.

arthurk
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by arthurk » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:33 am

So far, so good. I think I'd now be about 90-95% sure this is the right one, particularly since your cousin said she was born in Liverpool, but I'd probably still want to find a bit more evidence.

You now have a birth certificate with the right date of birth and the right father's name, and as I said before, the chances of there being two Rosalie Kirkhams born that day with a father Charles are rather slim. What would really clinch it is finding something which definitely links the Rosalie in Bakewell back to Liverpool. Trying to make the link from Rosalie's end is actually not that easy, but one thing I don't think you've mentioned is who the witnesses were when she married Henry Wright. Might any of them be members of the Liverpool Kirkham-Hunt family? And if there were any press reports of the wedding, they might mention her parents and where they lived, or her siblings.

It's also worth trying to make the link from the other direction. I can't really add much to the suggestions I made in my previous posts, but the kind of thing I'm thinking is whether Charles or his wife left a will mentioning Rosalie living in Bakewell or with the married name Wright. Or whether there might be something else connected with their deaths, such as a newspaper report listing their family, or Rosalie being named as informant on a death certificate. Or if you can't find any of those for Charles and his wife, what about records relating to their other children, or members of the wider family (aunts, uncles, grandparents etc)?
Kennedy (PER > LKS > ARM > England); Campbell, Rutherford, McDonald, Sinclair (all PER)
Wilson, Millar (RFW & LKS); Duncan (LKS); Hastings (KKD) (all > WRY)

barnsleymeth2000
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:31 pm

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by barnsleymeth2000 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:35 pm

My uncle was a witness to the wedding and it his daughter who mentioned Liverpool and there was another witness D Craig but no idea who they are. I am going to see if I can get a copy of the death cert for Rose Emma Kirkham to see who registered the death and find out any info on her brother or sister. Its a slow job. Her dad and mum were dead when she married but there is the possibility her siblings moved to the Bakewell area and she followed them there. I have a gut feeling I have the right one.

I have just had a thought in the 1911 census it does mention Charles (son 3 yrs) and Doris (0) and parents Charles and Roses. Could it be Doris who witnessed the marriage and that is her married name (Craig).

I am going to see if I get something from that.

arthurk
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by arthurk » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:11 pm

Bingo! You might want to get some documentation to back it up, and confirm my findings for yourself, but I think you've cracked it. =D>

From FreeBMD: Doris Kirkham married James Craig in 1931.

The 1939 register has a James and Doris Craig in Bakewell, with Doris's date of birth consistent with the one you've found in the 1911 census. Also in the household is a William H Kirkham born in 1917, who fits with another of the Kirkham-Hunt children born in the West Derby district.

Because of website T&Cs I can't give you masses of information from the 1939 register, but the images are available at FindMyPast and Ancestry.
Kennedy (PER > LKS > ARM > England); Campbell, Rutherford, McDonald, Sinclair (all PER)
Wilson, Millar (RFW & LKS); Duncan (LKS); Hastings (KKD) (all > WRY)

barnsleymeth2000
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:31 pm

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by barnsleymeth2000 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:21 pm

I shall order the certs after pay day and it will confirm the info. Not sure why it did not click when I got the marriage cert D Craig could be her sister.

Thank you for all your help.

arthurk
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by arthurk » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:48 am

I noticed from FreeBMD that there was one Craig child with mmn Kirkham in Manchester North, the district where James Craig married Doris Kirkham, then another in Bakewell.

I also looked for all BMD events with the surname Kirkham in Bakewell from 1925 onwards, and there were quite a lot. Some probably won't be relevant, but it would be interesting to see how many of these correspond to the Kirkham-Hunt family from West Derby. I'm getting the impression that the whole family might have moved there after Charles died - and since Rosalie would have been only about 15 months old when he died, she might well have thought (and said) she'd always lived in Bakewell. Anyway, I'll leave that to you.
Kennedy (PER > LKS > ARM > England); Campbell, Rutherford, McDonald, Sinclair (all PER)
Wilson, Millar (RFW & LKS); Duncan (LKS); Hastings (KKD) (all > WRY)

barnsleymeth2000
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:31 pm

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by barnsleymeth2000 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:53 pm

I am very thankful for the information you have provided and will inform u when I get some more proof to back things up. It will take time as I am back working and doing my voluntary work.

arthurk
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: PARENTS OF ROSALIE KIRKHAM MARRIED NAME WRIGHT

Post by arthurk » Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:43 pm

It depends on whether you like to buy every possible certificate, but if it was me, I think I might now feel there was reasonable evidence without them. The 1939 register puts Doris Craig in Bakewell, and FreeBMD indicates that she was almost certainly née Kirkham. There's another Kirkham with them, and without spending any money it might be possible to work out (a) if they could conceivably belong to another family (which I now think is extremely unlikely) and (b) if other family members were in that area too (as I wrote in my previous post).

On the other hand, the Craig-Kirkham marriage certificate could provide the cast-iron proof that Doris was Charles's daughter, if you think you still need it. And it would be interesting to find out what happened to Rosalie's mother, which might involve a certificate.

Meanwhile, I took a look in the probate indexes as earlier years give the name of executors, and it occurred to me that there was a chance that Rosalie might have been executor for Doris or the William H Kirkham who was with her in 1939. These were actually too late for that, but both left wills that can be ordered for £1.50 a time from https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

I've checked these against death indexes - Doris Craig died in 1988, and the index gives her date of birth as 6 Jun 1910 (same as in 1939); William died in 1994, and his year of birth is given as 1917 - this is from the GRO's own site as FreeBMD stops in 1992. Their wills were proved in the same years they died.

I really must stop now, or I'll be spoiling your fun. However, if you wanted to, you could probably do a similar process with the other siblings from West Derby, using a combination of FreeBMD and/or the GRO index, the 1939 register and the probate indexes. (Incidentally, it's easier to use the probate indexes at Ancestry or FindMyPast initially as you can search for multiple years at once; you have to use the government site to order copies, but you can only search it one year at a time.) From my point of view I'll regard this as case closed (so don't feel you have to reply to this), but if you want to provide an update some time I'll be interested to read it.
Kennedy (PER > LKS > ARM > England); Campbell, Rutherford, McDonald, Sinclair (all PER)
Wilson, Millar (RFW & LKS); Duncan (LKS); Hastings (KKD) (all > WRY)

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