Lost! Scottish watchmaker .....

Isabel H · Post by **Isabel H** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:23 am

Can anyone help find the death of a watchmaker called Joseph Pozzi(e) who was born 1820, Elgin, Moray, Scotland. I've traced him as far as 1881 when he was a widower aged 61, lodging at 20 Middle Hallgate, Wigan. Then the trail goes cold and I'd dearly like to know what became of him. He spent much of his life in Lancashire, (when he wasn't an inmate of various Scottish prisons, and Portland prior to 1879). In 1880 he was sentenced to 12mths hard labour at the Quarter sessions in Preston. I've tried lots of spelling variations - when handwritten his name can sometimes look like Porri or Poggi, and I've found him under Pazzi and Possie.
My current theories are that he may have gone to Ireland; he may have died somewhere he was unknown; his name has been omitted from the indexes; his name has been wrongly transcribed.

Post by **emanday** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:25 pm

Hi Isabel,

I've had a look around, but the only Joseph Pozzie I could find that came close the the time period would likely have been born earlier than 1820.

It's an extracted marriage on IGI...

JOSEPH POZZIE Spouse: ANN CRAWSHAW Marriage: 28 AUG 1834 St Chad's, Rochdale, Lancashire, England. Unfortunately, there were no results for a search for any children they might have had.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but maybe someone else will have better luck.

Jockbird · Post by **Jockbird** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:26 pm

Hi Isobel,

Could this chap be yours?

Joseph Pozzi
Father's name, William Pozzi, ELGIN
Date of Death: 10 SEP 1894
Place of Death: DUBLIN IRELAND

Newspaper Articles

Newspaper Description Date Page/Column
COURANT death 05/10/1894 5/6

This information is taken from the Moray Library Website which I've found to be great for any research in that neck of the woods. Their address is:
http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp

If you put in the surname Pozzi it gives 35 different entries. There are some watchmakers and jewellers in there too. If any of them are yours they will send you the information for a relatively small fee.

Good luck
Donna

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Jockbird · Post by **Jockbird** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:48 pm

Sorry Isobel, looks like that previous Joseph may have been a wild goose chase, having googled for him I find out from this site http://www.chidlow.com/pozzi.htm that he is the grandson of Guiseppe Pozzi, aka Joseph, and his father William was born in Elgin in 1824.

Do you have the names of your Joseph's parents? And was he definitely born in 1820 in Elgin? Sometimes b y having that info you can work out where siblings were and where he may possibly have ended up.

Hope some of the other Pozzis on that site were yours.

Donna
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Isabel H · Post by **Isabel H** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:37 pm

Thank you both for taking time to look. The Rochdale Joseph P. is almost certainly a different family, but the others you have found, Donna, are all the same family as the Joseph I'm interested in. He was the eldest son of Giuseppe/Joseph Pozzi from Como who settled in Elgin. (My husband's ggrandfather was the youngest son). Joseph jr seems to have been a competent watchmaker, but he was also inclined to steal the watches he was supposed to repair, which has made his career an interesting one to trace! Inveraray jail was only one of several he saw the inside of, and he seems to have been disowned by the rest of the family. I've been researching him for years and have probably found most of what there is to find up until 1881. What I want to know is what became of him after that - but maybe I never will discover. Incidentally I've searched for his death in Scotland, and also at the 1891 & 1901 censuses.

Post by **emanday** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Hi Isabel,

Have you seen this?

http://www.inverarayjail.co.uk/Former_p ... sp?ID=1098

On this, his wife's name is given as Maria Saint Albion.

Jockbird · Post by **Jockbird** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:31 pm

Hi Isobel,

I tried looking on www.emeraldancestors.com but couldn't find your Pozzi but that may just be me so it might be worth another play.

His wife Maria's death (or I'm guessing it's her) is listed in Preston in 1879, aged 43. Not that it will give you any clues I suppose as you know where Joseph was in 1881.

Do you know what became of Maria and Joseph's son Christopher? Are there any clues there?

It's so very annoying that he doesn't appear on the IGI with the family and in other people's research. Then again, without wishing to cast aspersions, was he the cause of Guiseppe & Eliza getting married? Hence why he may not appear.

There is a lady on Genes Reunited with a Jospeh born 1821 in Elgin on her list, have you ben in contact with anyone on there?

I've ben trudging through some Pozzis on Ancestry and Chrisopher Jospeh Pozzi is listed as marrying in Dec 1906 - Lewisham, Greater London, Kent, London. I'm guessing he's one in the same. If so his marriage certificate may give a clue to what happened to Joseph. He'd be 84 by then so possibly had passed away but it may give a lst know address on the certificate, or at least a 'dead by' date.

Must nip off on the school run now.

Best wishes
Donna
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Isabel H · Post by **Isabel H** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:33 pm

Hi Donna
I really appreciate you going to all that trouble, but I think I must have uncovered all the information that is readily available on Joseph from 1820-1881. I've got him in all the censuses 1841-1881, and detailed prison and court records too They were what allowed me to link him with complete certainty to our family. I'm also in contact with a number of other people researching this family and other Pozzis in Lancs. and Wales that we suspect are connected, if we could only find out how!
I too thought Christopher Joseph's marriage might hold the key, but it doesn't. C.J. had been admitted to Fulwood workhouse as a child after his mother Maria died in 1879. He probably did not know much about his father, or wanted to conceal what he did know. The marriage cert. names his father as "Joseph Pozzi, Musician". Hmmm - fiddler perhaps?! No mention of whether he was deceased. As you say, he'd have been in his eighties by 1906, but other family members lived on into old age, so it's not impossible that he did too.
Extensive searching has turned up loads of Pozzis, some related some not, but only one Christopher Joseph, so I am sure he is definitely Joseph's son. I've got a large database of other family members, but no help to be found there either.
Try as I might, I cannot find this Joseph in England or Scotland after the 1881 census, so I feel that he must either have died or left the country.
I was hoping one of TS's miracle workers might find him hiding behind one of those spectacularly improbable index entries - it's so frustrating not to know the end of a good story!
Isabel

Jockbird · Post by **Jockbird** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:42 pm

I've a Gx2 grandfather who left Scotland in 1884ish and that was the last we know of him, haven't ever found out what happened......I can appreciate how you feel.

Will keep my eyes peeled, you never know where these people can turn up....I've also a missing Gx3, also a jailbird, can't find her after 1871....perhaps there is a wee place all ex jaolbirds go to...if you find it first let me know!

All the best
Donna

Post by **SarahND** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:12 pm

Hi all,
It would seem to me highly probable that someone with his history might have (gasp!) changed his name

The nightmare of all genealogists

If so... well, I don't know

All the best,
Sarah