Irish census .....

[sheilajim]

Hi Everybody

Does anyone know of any Irish census in the county of Derry?
I have some ancestors who seem to have travelled back and forth between Northern Ireland and Scotland and would be grateful for anything that would help searching for them.

I have John Boyd married to Elizabeth Kennedy in Tamlaght O'Crilly in 1839. Three of their children were baptized in Churchtown 1856 according the the Bann page. The children were Agnes, William and Hugh.
John Boyd's parents were Hugh Boyd (farmer)and Ann McKee according to his death register. Elizabeth's parents were Jonathan Kennedy(shoemaker) and Nancy McVeiny according to her death register. John, Elizabeth, and at least, most of their children seemed to have settled down in Scotland in 1881 permantly.
According to the Scottish Census of 1881, 1891, Elizabeth was born in Eaglesham, although I can't find a register of her birth. Eldest daughter Agnes is also listed as born in Scotland circa 1850 in Linthingow and I can't find a record of her birth either, or for that matter her marriage to Henry Moncrief McLaren in 1867-68. She was his second wife. It's possible that his first wife was his second wife's aunt.
John Boyd was listed as born in Ireland. He was a schoolteacher, but the Scottish census doesn't say where in Ireland he was born.
John and Elizabeth had at least 9 children. Except for Agnes all were born in Ireland.
Another problem I have is with Jonathan Kennedy. On Scotlands People I have a Jonathan Kennedy (Shoemaker) of Eaglesham- Death Register in 1868. His wife is listed as Jean Campbell who doesn't fit into my family.
Is it possible that he could have been married twice before and his current wife didn't mention it when he died? Is it possible that he was married earlier in Ireland, as I can't find any record of previous wives?
Of course there could be two Jonathan Kennedys who were shoemakers in Eaglesham.
I know my questions all seem like a muddle. but can anyone help me?
Thanks,

Sheila
P.S. Does anyone know what a Cotter Agent in 1850 was?

[DavidWW]

Up to 1922 records are centred in Dublin. From 1922 Republic of Ireland records are in Dublin while Northern Ireland records are in Belfast. Belfast has some pre-1922 copies. Up to 1922 there was the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland. Since then the country is correctly known as the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland.

Be very careful about using the term “Ulster”. In historical terms there are 9 counties in Ulster, - Donegal, Monaghan, Fermanagh, Tyrone, Antrim, Down, Derry, Cavan, Armagh. (In genealogical terms Belfast is also often regarded as a “county”.) Cos. Donegal, Monaghan & Cavan are in the Republic of Ireland while the other 6 are in the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland.

In the Republic of Ireland the main archives of interest are GRO – General Register Office, which holds BMDs up to 1922, and National Archives of Ireland, which holds census and other records. In Northern Ireland BMDs from 1922 onwards are held by GRONI – General Register Office of Northern Ireland, while PRONI – Public Record Office Northern Ireland holds census and other records.

Irish Censuses

Full government censuses were taken of the whole island in 1813, 1821, 1831, 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901, and 1911. The first five, for 1813, 1821, 1831, 1841, and 1851, were largely destroyed in 1922, in the fire at the Public Record Office in Dublin; surviving fragments are detailed under the county source-lists. Those for 1861 and 1871 were destroyed after use, and those for 1881 and 1891 were completely destroyed during WWI, by order of the government; as was a 1926 census of Northern Ireland.

This means that the earliest surviving comprehensive returns are for 1901 and 1911. Because of this, the normal rule that census returns should not be available to the public for 100 years has been suspended in the Republic of Ireland, and the original returns can be consulted in the National Archives; in Northern Ireland the 1901 census is already available, and the 1911 census will become available shortly, with consideration being given to digitisation.

Full microfilm copies of the 1901 and 1911 censuses are available at the LDS Family History Library in Salt Lake City, and are also available through LDS/GSU Family History Centres. Indexes, published or database, are available for the 1901 returns of some counties. Copies of the 1901 returns for the six counties now in Northern Ireland are available at the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland.

In 1901 and 1911 the Irish practice was different that that in Scotland and England. In Scotland and England the original household schedules, often completed by the Head of the Household, were destroyed soon after clerks had extracted the information required by government from the Enumeration Books, which had been created by the enumerators transcribing the individual household returns. In Ireland, the original household schedules survive!! So that, as long as the head of the household or someone else in the household, sometimes thought to have been a schoolchild, filled in the household schedule, you can look at the original handwriting of your ancestor.

The lack of censuses before 1901 had led to great interest in substitutes. A partial listing of these is as follows, -

Muster Rolls in the 17th century
Books of Survey and Distribution
Petty’s 1655-67 Civil Survey of Ireland
Petty’s 1659 Census
Hearth Money Rolls 1666
Subsidy Rolls 1662-66
Poll Tax Returns 1660
Tithe Applotment Books 1824-38
Occupiers of titheable land
Flax Growers’ List
Freeholders’ Records, various dates
Griffith’s Valuation 1848-64 listing of every householder and occupier of land
The 1876 “Return of owners of land of one acre and upwards”.
School records at PRONI

Possibly the most valuable of these to genealogists is “Griffiths” and the associated tithe applotment books.

Griffith’s Valuation

At the time of Griffith's (1848-1864) or to give it its proper name the Primary Valuation there was no Northern Ireland. The whole of the island was considered part of Britain, - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (except by the indigenous Irish, mostly Catholics, who had lost their land and privileges when the English occupied the land by force).

Apart from a few entries from the 1851 census nothing survives of the original 6 useful censuses in Ireland (1821 and 1831 didn't give names). The earliest "Whole Country" (though 31 parishes out of 273 are missing) records are from the Tithe Applotment valuation between 1823 and 1838. The Tithe was an unpopular mandatory payment to the Church of Ireland, regardless of a person's religious affiliation. However some were exempt from the Tax and the valuation only lists Heads of household.

Griffith's valuation (1848 -1864) gives a complete list of occupiers of land, tenements and houses. But, again, only the immediate lease holder (Head of Household) is named.

it possible that he could have been married twice before and his current wife didn't mention it when he died? Is it possible that he was married earlier in Ireland, as I can't find any record of previous wives?

Yes to both.

Davie

[sheilajim]

Hi Davie

Thanks for your reply and information.
What that means, I suppose, is that even if I could get access to the Griffiths Valuation, it wouldn't do me much good, as I couldn't be sure if I had the correct John, or Hugh Boyd, or Jonathan Kennedy. These don't seem to be uncommon names in Northern Ireland.

Does this mean that my research has come to a crashing end?

I have to do all my research on the computer as I live too far away to just drop into Scotland & Ireland.

Thanks

Sheila



Looking for: Boyd,Kennedy, McKee, Mclaren,McDonald,Morin,Langan, McVeiny, King