Help Please with Death Records.

[trish58]

Hi

I am hoping that some-one out there may be able to help with the death records of 2 wives, (same husband)

My Gr Grand Father Louis Rae first married Elizabeth Agnew in Scotland in 1872, she was born c1850, parents James Agnew & Margaret Ann Kennedy in Ayr.

With Elizabeth he had 4 children all born in Scotland, I have their birth & death certificates.

After their 4 child Mary Ann Rae was born in 1879 they disappear from the Scotland census's, I am sure they went across to Ireland as I have 4 testemonials dated 1879, 1882, 1883,1884, from Louis employers, I also have a photograph of Louis & Elizabeth' eldest Daughter Elizabeth in School, the photo was taken by Father ---- at Enniscothy School taken Sept 1882 age 14, so he took the family with him.

Then Louis is back in Scotland and marrying his 2 wife in 1887.

Her name is Mary McDonald born 1865 Coothill Cavan, parents are
Francis McDonald, & Ellen Farley They where living in Scotland 1871,1881, 1891,.

Mary & Louis have a Son Louis born 1889 and died 6 months later, I hve both birth & death certificate for the little guy,.

In 1891 the have a Son (my Grandad) born in Enniscorthy Co Wexford, and I do have this birth certificate.
In 1893 they have a Daughter Born Ireland (place not known).

Louis then appears on the 1901 census in Bolton Lancashire with eldest Son from marriage to Elizabeth, and Francis & Mary chldren of 2nd wife Mary McDonald, Louis is a widower, and he died 1908 in Bolton Lancs.

There are NO death records in either Scotland or England for Elizabeth or Mary, I paid for searches, all negative.

So Elizabeth would have died between 1879 after her last child was born and 1887 when Louis re-married.

Mary would have died between 1893 after her last child was born and 1901 when Louis appears as a widower.

I am sorry for the length of the post, but the Rae ancestry has been one long haul since I first posted on this site, and you were great helping me sort through things, my tree has come a long way since then, but really hoping I can find these 2 missing wives.

Thanks
Trish

[LesleyB]

Hi Trish
Do you think, then, that there is a high probability that these wives died in Ireland?
Without census data there, other than the 1901 (when your chap is in England) it's not so easy to trace folk.

From what you have said,
Wife no. 1, Elizabeth Rae (m.s. Agnew) appears to have died between 1879 - 1887.
Wife no. 2 Mary Rae (m.s. McDonald) appears to have died between 1893 - 1901.

You could try the GRO at Roscommmon. If they find nothing they make a small charge. The only problem is that because the Irish system is similar to the English one, there are no parents given of death entries, and women will be referred to by their married name only. You'd really have to be going by the location, age and time frame only, and with any luck the death informant would be Louis himself...

Best wishes
Lesley

[trish58]

Hi Lesley

Thanks for your reply.

Yes I do think they both died in Ireland as I have exhausted all avenues in Scotland & England, as I mentioned I have my Grand Father's birth certificate sent from Ireland (Francis born 1891 Enniscorthy to Louis & Mary) but the strange thing is they do not have a record for Mary born 1893 (Daughter of Louis & Mary). I have checked several times on SP & England no record that belongs to her. I also have many certificates that are not my family, but who hasn't

The 4 testemonials I have of Louis (occupation sawyer) are from different parts of Ireland, 1 in Dublin, 1 in Youhall, 1 in Co Cork, can't read the last one.,
I had thought because Daughter Elizabeth was in School that is where they had settled.
I will contact Rosscommon ad see if they can help.

Would really aprecciate any help from any quarter, thanks.

Trish

[LesleyB]

Hi Trish
Problem is with deaths, that I think you need to know WHERE the event happened...hmmm....maybe not so good.....

If you are going down this route, website is at:
http://www.groireland.ie/
This office covers all areas of Ireland for the time you are interested in.
See http://www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm

However, maybe the way to go it to check out the sites with Irish indexes first.

Best wishes
Lesley

[trish58]

Hi Lesley

Thanks again for your reply .

I have had problems with my Irish side from day one when I thought our name had always been RAE, no such luck, 2xGreat Grandad came from Ireland as O'Raw, and changed it to Raw as he thought the former sounded to "Irish". Sounds like bad Irish joke, then he changed it again in 1871 to the present Rae.

So will follow your advise and see what else crops up. Thanks

Trish

[LesleyB]

Hi Trish
I was off having a wee dig about and found these, but I don't think any of them are too likely - I searched for Rae but not exact spelling. Some of the counties you gave as places the family had lived are not yet covered by this web site,
http://www.brsgenealogy.com/
as you can see from the map, so it may be a case of either waiting a bit, or, er, booking your trip to Ireland, or you could hire a researcher there to look...not the cheapest option, but probably cheaper than going yourself! I've done this once, it cost about £30, and the birth of the person I was hoping to find did not turn up....

1879-1887
Civil Death Rea Elizabeth 1879 Co. Limerick
Church Burial Ray Elizabeth 1880 Co. Westmeath
Civil Death Rea Elizabeth 1880 Co. Limerick
Civil Death Rea Elizabeth 1885 Co. Limerick
Civil Death Rea Elizabeth Mary 1885 Co. Antrim

1893 - 1901
Civil Death Rea Mary 1893 Co. Limerick
Civil Death Rea Mary 1898 Co. Limerick

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Still digging.....
This looks like this is perhaps worth following up as a tactic - order the appropriate film from your local LDS centre, and you can view the death indexes:
http://www.genfindit.com/ideaths.htm

Given that you do not have an exact year, it could cost a bit in films (it's £2.75 per film ordered in UK), and I'm not sure how you'd know that you'd found the correct Elizabeth or Mary... the indexes, like the English ones, give surname, first name, reg. district, volume and page number and age at death. The age would help narrow them down a bit.

I believe these are the indexes that are currently being transcribed for the LDS site, so again, it may just be a case of waiting!
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsea ... t.html#p=0

[trish58]

Hi Lesley

Thanks for the "digging around", a trip to Ireland is on the cards but not for the next couple of years and for the purpose of finding all the lost relles. I keep putting these deaths on the back burner-then having another go, as you say maybe it's just a matter of waiting, and of course the family are going nowhere are they?

Thanks again

Trish