Return of poor persons, from Scotland to Ireland

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:30 pm

Hi all
I don't know the source of these documents, as I have not come across them before, but just thought that they may be of interest to those with ancestors who appeared to be in Scotland or England and then disappear off the radar.

www.raymondscountydownwebsite.com/html/index2.htm

Return of all poor persons, removed from Scotland to Ireland 1867/1869

Return of all poor persons removed from England & Wales to Ireland 1867/1869

Return of poor persons, England & Wales since 1st Jan. 1875

Return of poor from Scotland to Ireland, 1875/76/77/78

Best wishes
Lesley
p.s. turn the PC sound off before visiting this site or you will go slowly mad....

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:32 pm

Seem to be here too, as Parliamentary papers:
http://www.eppi.ac.uk/eppi/digbib/toc;j ... =c1:255270

Post by **Anne H** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:14 pm

Hi Lesley,

Thanks for pointing out both sites. I think I've read the Parliamentary Papers before in a google book and I've also been on the County Down site (I recognize the loud music

) but can't remember seeing so many names listed. I'll have to have a good look through them to see if any of mine were shipped back...poor people!

Regards,
Anne H

Post by **Anne H** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:15 pm

Hi again Lesley,

I've just found a young widow Helen McConville Scullion and her three children from Old Monkland being shipped back to Lurgan in 1876...her husband died in 1874. This is one of the Scullion families I've been holding as 'possibles' for years and still can't find the connection, although I'm sure there is a connection somewhere.

It's amazing how some of these people were shipped back even after living anywhere up to 40 odd years in Scotland...all because they didn't live long enough in any one place. Still, others went back voluntarily.

Good information on these lists though!

Regards,
Anne H

Post by **Tracey** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:18 pm

p.s. turn the PC sound off before visiting this site or you will go slowly mad....

Note to self.....i really should read all of a post before rushing to see whats new

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:34 pm

hi Anne

Yes, I was amazed I just did not recall not coming across even a mention of them before in any books or magazine articles as they seem such an important source in some ways, knowing how movement between Ireland and Scotland is not well documented on the whole.

I suppose, perhaps being neither exclusive to Irish Research or Scots research they have fallen down a gap where they appear to be missed out by books on either subject. e.g. John Greenham's thick tome on Tracing Your Irish Ancestors has a very short section on the Irish in Scotland and sources to try to find out their place of origin; he does not mention these lists but interestingly, nor does he mention the poor relief applications at the Mitchell, which I would have rated as a very valuable and illuminating source of info with regard to origin for those Irish who applied* and who were in the Glasgow area; I would still just have just "Ireland" instead of Co.s Meath, Monaghan and Fermanagh (which eventually led me to a very specific townland using the Griffiths and the opening of many doors ) if not for those wonderful records.....

Best wishes
Lesley

* looking at the lists at the Mitchell, it always strikes me that the very large number surnames of Irish orign tells its own story....

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:35 pm

Note to self.....i really should read all of a post before rushing to see whats new

Post by **Anne H** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:29 am

Still, others went back voluntarily.

Maybe I spoke to soon! I'm not sure if this is the same Parliamentary Papers as in your link, Lesley, but according to the little snippets I read in this link...
Google Books - Parliamentary debates - the poor being sent back to Ireland from Scotland
some of those poor people didn't exactly go back voluntarily. Some good reading here.

Regards,

Anne H

P.S. Is there instructions somewhere on how to shorten these links?
Link shortened - AndrewP

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:47 am

Hello Anne,

http://books.google.com/books?id=utoTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PT400
Try chopping it off after the page number, the rest is usually to do with highlighting and who knows what. But I’m not even getting snippets so it may be one of those that depend on what side of the puddle you’re on.

Here’s a couple of interesting links I recently posted elsewhere.

“A Treatise on the Law of Scotland Relative to the Poor” by Alex. Dunlop, 1828.
See p57 regarding removal of paupers. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2dc2 ... e#PPA57,M1

“The Poor Law Magazine for Scotland”, 1860. This one is after the 1845 Act and there are some interesting examples to look at if you search in the box on the right for REMOVAL or whatever. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=lcw ... =titlepage

All the best,
Alan

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:22 am

Hi Anne
I was aware they had not returned to Ireland voluntarily. See p,3. para 4:
www.scran.ac.uk/scotland/pdf/SP2_5Income.pdf

Good google books links there too, Alan.

Best wishes
Lesley