Robert Howie 1815 to 1851

Northern Ireland and Eire

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jjlmary312
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:27 pm

Robert Howie 1815 to 1851

Post by jjlmary312 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:57 am

Hi
I was wondering if anyone knows how I could get a copy of the birth cert for the above person. I believe her was born in Ireland and married someone called Margaret Donnelly. He moved to Scotland and had a son Thomas. I am also looking for the birth cert for Thomas but am unable to trace one. All I know he was born in Scotland. Robert Howie may have been born in the Fermanagh District of Norther Ireland. I should also appreciate if I could locate a copy of the birth cert for Margaret Donnelly and a marriage cert for Robert Howie and Margaret Donnelly. =D> =D>

LesleyB
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Location: Scotland

Re: Robert Howie 1815 to 1851

Post by LesleyB » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:18 pm

Hi jjlmary312

I don't want to be all doom and gloom, but you will probably need to know a bit more about the couple before any progress can be made and even then, you may find that the records just do not exist. Statutory Registration did not begin in Ireland until 1864 as far as I remember, so there are no birth certs before that date. To find any events before that you are at the mercy of parish records. To find out if anything exists, you would need to know if they attended a Catholic or Protestant church and where exactly that church was and most likely what townland they were living in too. Fermanagh is large, and these kind of searches can be a bit "needle in the haystack" in character....and even with thorough searching both on-line and in person at archives, may not produce a definative answer.

As to the birth in Scotland, do you have the family on any census? That should give clues to a place of birth for the son at least!

Best wishes
Lesley

jjlmary312
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:27 pm

Re: Robert Howie 1815 to 1851

Post by jjlmary312 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:02 am

Thanks for the help. On the census for the son it says born lanarskhire and that is it. I am looking for a needle in a haystack on this one but see if I can get anymore information. Regards, Caz

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Robert Howie 1815 to 1851

Post by LesleyB » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:08 am

I am also looking for the birth cert for Thomas but am unable to trace one.
Lanarkshire is at least a start, but were the family Protestant or Catholic? pre. 1855 in Scotland it will help to establish this first. If RC, there is unlikely to be any mention of a birth of christening in the OPR, not impossible, but not very likely, given that the OPRs are predominately records of the established church, i.e. the church of Scotland. Where have you searched already?

bah125
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Re: Robert Howie 1815 to 1851

Post by bah125 » Sun May 08, 2016 11:39 pm

I believe that the Robert Howie you are looking for appears in the 1841 Census in Hamilton, Lanarkshire, with wife Margaret, and sons Thomas and William. Robert was born in Ireland about 1815, as was his wife. In the 1851 Census they have two additional children -- Robert age 8 and William age 6. The birthplace of the parents is further defined as Fermanagh, Ireland. Margaret may be the Margaret Howie, nee Donally, servant and pauper, who died in the Glasgow poor house in 1858. In 1871, her husband Robert is probably the Robert Howie (indexed by Ancestry as "Home") who is described as a "plasterer's lab'r" who is living in Hamilton with Sarah McLean, age 28. In 1862, Robert Howie and Sarah McLean had twin boys. In 1871, Robert Howie, described as a plaster, is lodging with Elizabeth Hamilton in Hamilton. His surname is indexed as "Hawie" or "Hawle" depending on where you look. The ages are somewhat inconsistent throughout these census entries, but that doesn't seem unusual for Scottish censuses. What connects all this information is the marriage record of William Howie in 1865, Dalziel, Lanarkshire, to Agnes Coates, in which William names his parents as Robert Howie, plasterer, and Margaret Donaldson, deceased. His younger brother Robert provided exactly the same parental information when he married Annie Edgar in 1866, Dalrymple, Ayrshire. Robert and William must have been providing the Scottish form of the surname Donnalley, which is the surname Thomas gave when he was married in 1858 to Eliza Jane Cuddie in Airdree. The Robert who was born in Ireland in 1815 (as shown in the 1841 Census and 1851 Census in Hamilton) was still living when young Robert and William were married, so he may be the Robert Howie who died in the Hamilton combination poor house in 1878. Young Robert emigrated to the US in (probably) 1871, and died in Greene County, Pennsylvania in 1923. His family Bible shows his parents' names as Robert Howie and Margaret Donaldson.

bah125
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Re: Robert Howie 1815 to 1851

Post by bah125 » Mon May 09, 2016 12:17 am

My grandmother always said that the Howies were Presbyterian. The marriages of young Robert and William (I think) were performed by ministers of the United Presbyterian Church. I guess that means they were non-conforming, so perhaps the records either weren't preserved or haven't been indexed, especially if the elder Robert and Margaret Donnelly/Donaldson were married in Ireland.

Also worth noting: Thomas Howie's census entries can be difficult to find, but here's what I propose --

1841 Hamilton, Lanarkshire, with his parents Robert and Margaret Howie
1851 Hamilton, Lanarkshire, with his parents Robert and Margaret Howie
1861 indexed by Ancestry as Thomas Hessie and Olyson Hossie. Thomas is 25, born in Hamilton, a coal miner. Others in this household (as indexed by Ancestry) are Patrick McCuskar and Agnes Goy, so those names can lead to the census record on Scotlandspeople. I believe Scotlandspeople has Agnes indexed as "Gay" rather than "Goy," and she is aged 68.
1871 indexed by Ancestry as Thomas Wowie and wife Elizabeth. They are enumerated in Carnworth, Lanarkshire.
1881 Thomas and Eliza are in Blantyre, Lanarkshire. This one is easy to find.
1891 Eliza Jane Howie is enumerated in Blantyre, Lanarkshire. Thomas is not with her.

I have not found birth records for Robert Howie and Margaret Donnelly/Donaldson in Fermanagh, Ireland, and have not found a marriage record for them. I would be inclined to search whatever Presbyterian records can be found in Ireland before I looked at Catholic records. I have not found death records in Scotland for William or James Howie, although given the creative indexing I've encountered -- Howie being transcribed as Hones, Home, Wowie, Honie, Hessie, Hossie -- I expect they will be found eventually.

jjlmary312
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:27 pm

Re: Robert Howie 1815 to 1851

Post by jjlmary312 » Mon May 23, 2016 11:11 pm

Thank you for everyones help.

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