Irish BDM registrations

[billymac]

Hello all,
I have a quick question some knowledgeable members may be able to help me with.
It concerns Irish records.
Post partition, are Northen Ireland BDM (GRONI) records completely separate from the Republic's records.
What I mean is, would a death which occurred in Fermanagh post 1922, not be in the "Irish Geneology.ie" website records?
I have been searching for a death of a Margaret McEntee, born about 1845, did not marry, and resided in Eshywulligan /Eshawilligan Townland, Fermanagh (1901 and 1911 census). The Griffiths Valuation revisions indicate she took over the lease from her mother (Mary M"Atee --- nee Breslin) in 1889. I assume this is when her mother may have died although I have never been able to find a suitable death registration for Mary M'Atee/McEntee. Margaret's lease on the plot later changed hands in a 1921 revision (to a Hugh Callaghan). I assume it was at this time or shortly after that she died (would have been late 70s). These two women's fates are the last unknowns in the family puzzle that I've been researching for the last fourteen years and I sure would like to find what became of them.
Best regards,
Bill

[Elwyn 1]

Bill,

The records for Northern Ireland from 1.1.1922 onwards are indeed a separate collection. Irishgenealogy do not have access to them and only GRONI has them.

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You need to register and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 to view each cert.

So a death in Fermanagh post 1922 will not appear on the irishgenealogy site. But you should be able to find it on the GRONI site. Likely death appears to be on 12.3.1927, aged 68 regd in Lisnaskea. (Age was probably just a guess). The lady is recorded as male. Presumably a mistake you could feed back to GRONI to correct.

Can’t help with the mother’s death. Can’t see it. It's always possible it wasn't registered.

[billymac]

Hello Elwyn,
Thank you for your info. Of course with Irish death registrations, owing to the lack of spouse and parent's names, confirmation is always going to be a problem. I will look into that Linaskea death, although the age is a long way off (she was shown as 67 in 1911). But with all her immediate family dead at that date, if she died out of home that age may indeed be a wild guess.
Kind regards,
Bill

[Elwyn 1]

Bill,

Your Margaret was the only person named Margaret McEntee in Fermanagh in the 1911 census. (It’s not a common name. There were only 4 female McEntees in the county in 1911). So the question is, if this 1927 death isn’t your Margaret, who is she?

Errors of 10 years or more in death certificates were not at all uncommon at that time. No evidence of age was required or available in most cases. The informant often just guessed.

And, post 1922, Lisnaskea was the registration district that covered Eshywulligan and surrounding areas. I can also see from the GRONI indexes that this death was registered in Rosslea sub-district which again is close. I do think it’s likely to be your Margaret.

A point to remember with Griffiths is that when someone disappears from the records it doesn’t necessarily mean they are dead (unless it says “reps of”). Just that they are no longer the tenant. So an elderly farmer might retire and live on locally for many years lodging with someone else. As a lodger they wouldn’t be in Griffiths. Your Margaret was probably related to half the families in Eshawulligan, and may have gone to live with one of them. Some sort of distant cousin or nephew perhaps?

Likely burial places for a Roman Catholic living in Eshawulligan could be either Rosslea or Aghadrumsee graveyards.

[billymac]

Hello again Elwyn,
I believe you are exactly correct. Based on what you said I obtained the image and that 1927 Margaret McEntee death occurred in Eshnadarragh townland which is quite close to Eshywulligan townland. The death was registered by a nephew, James McAloon also of Eshnadarragh and notes she was a spinster (which is correct). Although I can't find a direct link between Margaret and James, Margaret's brother John married a McAloon (Maryann) so I'm thinking the term "nephew" might be rather broad in this case. (I think it quite feasible that James' father, Peter McAloon, was a brother of MaryAnn McAloon.
The 1926 census when released may shed a little more light.
So thank you for your invaluable help and direction. You have solved a long term mystery for me.
Kind regards,
Bill

[Elwyn 1]

Bill,

Glad to have helped. And glad you found the information you were looking for.

I agree with you that the term “nephew” can have a fairly wide definition.

Bad news about the 1926 census. The portion for Northern Ireland has disappeared. Nobody knows what happened to it. Some speculation it was destroyed by German bombing of Belfast in WW2, but that’s not corroborated. But I can tell you that a senior official in PRONI confirmed to me they don't have it, and so when the Republic of Ireland’s portion is released (which should be in 2026), it won’t be accompanied by anything for NI. Very disappointing.

Next census for NI will be the 1937 one (to be released in 2037), but that’s no use to you for this lady.

[ninatoo]

Hello again Elwyn,
I believe you are exactly correct. Based on what you said I obtained the image and that 1927 Margaret McEntee death occurred in Eshnadarragh townland which is quite close to Eshywulligan townland. The death was registered by a nephew, James McAloon also of Eshnadarragh and notes she was a spinster (which is correct). Although I can't find a direct link between Margaret and James, Margaret's brother John married a McAloon (Maryann) so I'm thinking the term "nephew" might be rather broad in this case. (I think it quite feasible that James' father, Peter McAloon, was a brother of MaryAnn McAloon.
The 1926 census when released may shed a little more light.
So thank you for your invaluable help and direction. You have solved a long term mystery for me.
Kind regards,
Bill

Hello Bill,
I have John McEntee and Mary McAloon in my tree. I know that John's parent's were Bernard McEntee and Mary Bresley. Mary Anne McAloon's parents were Patrick McAloon and Mary McIlroy. John and Mary married in Glasgow Scotland in 1870, which is how I have their parents' names. I don't have any brothers or sisters of Mary Ann so I can't help you with the James you mention as a nephew. They enter my tree when Isabella, their daughter, married James Corr in Glasgow in 1900. James Corr was my grandfather's uncle.

Hope this helps you in some way!

Nina

[billymac]

Ah, goodness me.
Just read about it here. A very great loss indeed.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-22848416

[billymac]

Well hello Nina,
I believe we spoke some years back on the forum here.
John McEntee did indeed marry MaryAnn McAloon in Glasgow in 1870. The registrar entered a few erroneous details on their marriage registration. John's mother's name was Breslin rather than Bresley. The registrar spelled Maryann's name as McAloon but her father's as Patrick McIloon. He also spelled John's name as McInteer while his father's name is entered as McEnteer. John's mother was still alive at the time although his father was dead as was both of Marann's parents.
Perhaps it was the Irish brogue at work.
They hailed out of Eshywulligan townland near Rosslea in County Fermanagh and John returned there I believe before his wife died, residing with his sister Margaret (never married, died 1927). (He had two other sisters, Catherine (never married, died 1903) and Marianne (married James McDonald of Galloon townland in 1869)
It was a real stroke of luck I found their origins. John's son, also John, was a marine boilermaker who traveled back and forth to the US a few times. On one of the immigration documents (1910) it mentioned his father (John Snr) resided in Eshywulligan at that time. The McAloons and Breslins were reasonably numerous in that townland back then. As a matter of fact John's mother is still living there (as in the Griffiths Valuation) till about 1889 (listed as Mary M'Atee)
Kind regards,
Bill

[ninatoo]

Hi Billymac,
It's very possible that we have already communicated. I have not been very active on the boards for a number of years now, so I have forgotten a lot of my contacts and the details. I am only just dabbling here and there at the moment. I found my interest was hard to maintain after my father passed away in 2016 and then my mother followed him only last month, but I had been caring for her and looking after her interests, so there was not a lot of time to pursue my recreational activities, not to mention that it was just a bit too painful to do so.

You seem to have found out more than I, so thank you, and I will review my tree in the morning...it's late at night here. Thanks so much for replying.

Nina