police sergeant, but not R.I.C? ....

[David Douglas]

I've been looking for a Samuel Alexander Wray, Sergeant of Police, without success. The family lived in the city of Derry, but moved to Port Glasgow in the early 1870s. He died sometime before the 1881 census, and I don't know if he ever made it to Scotland.

The obvious place to look would be the R.I.C records, however he is definitely not there. I haven't checked the Dublin Police Force records, but have no reason to think he would have been in Dublin. I'm not aware of any other police forces in Ireland.

His 'Sergeant of Police' job title appears on the death certificates of his widow, and of one of his children. On another of his children's death certificates he's a journeyman tailor.

He may have died much earlier -on his son's Church of Ireland wedding certificate (in Derry in 1865), the witnesses are the bride's father and the groom's sister. Samuel Wray is listed as the groom's father, but it doesn't say deceased. The son was born in 1840 and the daughter in 1846.

Could Sergeant of Police have referred to an exciseman? Or could he have become a police sergeant in Scotland (say starting in the early 1870's and advancing to sergeant before 1881?

Anybody have any suggestions as to where to look?

[CatrionaL]

David

Since there is the possibility that Samuel Wray was a policeman in Scotland, it might be worth contacting the

Scottish Police Federation
5 Woodside Place
GLASGOW
G3 7QF

Tel 0141 332 5234

As far as I know they hold the Police Archives. If not they may be able to point you in the right direction.

Best wishes
Catriona

[Montrose Budie]

David

Have you tried http://www.psni.police.uk/index/pg_poli ... mation.htm and http://www.esatclear.ie/~ric/ .

As far as I'm aware, prior to 1922 there was only the single national police force in Ireland, the Royal Irish Constabulary, over and above the Dublin Metropolitan Police.

Quoting from the RIC website .....

The original registers of service of the RIC are kept in the Public Records Office, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, England, with microfilm copies available at various centers world-wide. The purpose of Royal Irish Constabulary Ancestry is to identify, locate RIC descendants who can supplement the service records with individual genealogical information, which is then added to the Royal Irish Constabulary Database and make this information available to genealogists.

David

[Alcluith]

David,

There is a book that lists all RIC men and officers with their rank and serial number, for the love of me I can't remember who was the author. If I can find it I will post here, but you should be able to get it from your local library. You may need to wait a few weeks though.
Once you have the reference you will be able to get his information from either Kew or The National Archives in Dublin. Information includes personal details , if he married who, where and when and also details of his various posts and sometimes other relevant information.

[Alcluith]

David

The book details as promised:

The Royal Irish Constabulary: a complete alphabetical list of officers and men, 1816-1922

Author JIM HERLIHY ISBN: 1-85182-502-9


This book consists of introductory chapters on how to access original RIC Registers, held in the Public Records Office at Kew, in Surrey, England, and microfilm copies of these accessible in the National Archives, Dublin, Ireland, and via the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Family History Centres. The RIC Microfiche Index and the RIC Database are also discussed.

This is followed by the complete list of surnames, Christian names and RIC service numbers of all 83,743 rank and file RIC men. In the case of RIC officers the book contains all 1681 RIC officers' surnames and Christian names and identifies whether the officers entered the RIC officer class by cadetship or were promoted through the ranks.


You can also get some information on line if you go to Ancestry.co.uk via the link below but it is not free.

A quick search shows one Samual Wray, but no indication of time or rank.

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=6087

[David Douglas]

Thanks, I did have a search done a few months ago (www.genfindit.com) on the RIC records, but no luck. There is a Samuel Wray in Derry in that book, who could well be related, but he's a generation later than the guy I'm looking for.

I'm beginning to suspect his police career might have been in Scotland (though he wasn't on the 1871 census, was dead by 1881, and there's no record in Scotland of his death). So thanks for the address.

[David Douglas]

I did find some other Irish police forces of the time (as well as the Dublin Municipal Police, where a book has been published listing all its members):

the County Constabulary (pre-1836),

Irish Revenue Police (1832-1857, though John McGuffin, in "In Praise of Poteen", said it was founded in 1818),

Belfast Borough Police ('the Bulkies') (1816-1865),

Belfast Harbour Police (1847- present day)

Londonderry Borough Police ("Horney Dicks") disbanded in 1869

Does anyone know what records exist today, and where they might be found?

[David Douglas]

I wrote to Jim Herlihy, author of books on the R.I.C. and the Dublin Municipal Police. He replied that he knows of no surviving personnel records for the County Constabulary, the Belfast Borough Police, or the Londonderry Borough police.

He has however found service records for the Irish Revenue Police (at the National Archives, in Kew) and is working on a book about it.

The Belfast Harbour police still exists, so they could be contacted to hear about the existence of 19th century records.

[IanS]

There is a Rebecca Rea in Griffiths Valuation, Derry. Address Lone Moor, Stanley Walk, Edenballymore, Templemore South Ward. (House only) The nearest Constabulary Force (or Revenue Police) I can see is in the East Ward. (1858) . Even if Samuel were still alive (if the above is his widow)I don't think the Constabulary Barracks would be his permanent address, he would be listed under his home address.

Does the above address resemble anything near the address on Samuel Jnrs marriage cert?

Just a thought, but could Samuel Snr. have been a Railway Policeman?

[David Douglas]

Ian, thanks, that's very interesting. Yes, his wife's name was Rebecca (maiden name Steen)., born sometime between 1821 and 1826.

I know very little about Samuel Alexander Wray - he may have died as early as the mid 1840s.

Unfortunately the extract from the register of marriages (for St. Columb's Cathedral, Templemore parish, which was extracted the 1960s) for the son Samuel states only the residence at the time of marriage as Londonderry.

His sister Margaret Jane Wray's son, William John Douglas, was born in Rosemount, City of Derry, in 1871. I have not been able to find her marraige certificate (husband Archibald Douglas).
He must have been dead by 1872, as she remarried that year in St Columba’s, Long Tower Roman Catholic Chapel, Derry city. I'm told this served all of the Roman Catholic population of Derry city situated on the west bank of the River Foyle. They had a son, also born in Rosemount, in 1874.

I've not studied street maps of Derry in any detail, but this Rebecca Rea looks very interesting.

As for the Railway Police, I hadn't though of it, but haven't been able to find out if there was such an organisation in Ireland (the British Transport Police today does not operate in Northern Ireland)