Could someone help, please .....

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:55 am

Could someone help, please

If anyone has resource material for Ireland, I would be grateful for a lookup, I am still trying to establish which County in Ireland to conduct my research, my guess is Antrim.

The information I have is Edward McNeil or McNeill & Martha Graham, births about 1810-1820, marriage possibly about 1840 in Ireland.

Their children, all born in Ireland,

William McNeil c 1841
Alexander McNeil c 1852
Thomas McNeil c 1853

The parents of Martha Graham are John Graham & Ann Campbell.

Alexander McNeill I can trace in Scotland after 1873, his brothers William & Thomas, and mother, Martha in Scotland after 1881, no sign of Edward in Scotland.

Any help would be appreciated.

Kathy

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:48 pm

Kathy,

If you think your Edward was still alive in 1859, (G.V. date for Derry)I'd strongly suggest you start your Irish searching in the Co. of Derry/Londonderry. I was surprised to find very few entries for an Edward McNeil(sp) in the whole of Ireland ( 6 entries, 5 people as one person was renting a garden as well, not far from his house ). By cross-referencing Edward McNeill with John Graham and the Campbell surname I would try the town of Magherafelt. There is an Edward McNeil and a John Graham close to each other, with a nearby John Campbell.

This method is not fool-proof, especially with common names, but this looks very promising. It's a very good match.

happy hunting

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:57 am

Thanks Ian for the reply,

On an earlier post, there is a link for the 1851 census for Antrim, I looked all through, but no sign of any McNeill's.

On one of the web Irish Genealogy sites, limited searching can be done, and just using the surnames McNeil & McNeill, Derry was really the only one with any results, but nothing for the years I estimate the births, and nothing for a marriage for Edward & Martha.

I find it rather frustrating trying to get Irish information, especially after getting so much information from SP on their lives in Scotland.

At this stage I need to establish a marriage for Edward & Martha, or a birth for their sons, before I can use GV, just to confirm I have the correct family.

Thanks again

Kathy

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:26 am

Kathy, Whoa, stop, reverse........... you've lost me!!

1. Where are you getting the parents names of Edward McNeil and Martha Graham????

Have you got the marriage and/or death certs for Alexander , William and Thomas? Also a direct and unbroken lineage to one of the brothers.(no probables)

2. Do you have census entries in Scotland that suggest Antrim??? And/or any other documents?

N.B. If William is definately yours, i.e. same parentage as Alexander and Thomas, and his birth is abt. 1841, you will not find the marriage of Edward Mcneil and Martha Graham in Irish Civil Registration, Too early.

Therefore it is much better to find their home county first, then look for parish records of marriage and birth.

This is where G.V. proves invaluable as a possible starting point.

If you have the death/marriage certs for the brothers, with same parents, then the marriage (or of kind) and their births is already established. It is now the place you want first.

Now- was Edward alive or deid on any of his 3 sons marriage certs?

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:36 am

Hi Ian,

Don't mean to loose you, I'm greatful for any help, stops me banging my head against the closest brick wall.

On the marriage entry of Alexander McNeil & Agnes Craig 1873, in Greenock, Renfrewshire. It lists Edward McNeil & Martha Graham as parents of Alexander, both alive in 1873, and as I have been unable to locate them in Scotland, I'm thinking they are still in Ireland, at that stage.

On the death entry for Alexander McNeill (now the extra L is added) in 1912 both Edward McNeill & Martha Graham are deceased.

Why did I think Antrim, in the 1891 census, living next door to Alexander McNeil, there is a Martha McNeil, widow, Antrim Ireland, thats my only reference to Antrim. On this same census, living with Martha McNeil, there is a William McNeil aged 52 boarder Derry, Ireland, I'm now thinking it may be her son.

All census or other reference to place of birth is only Ireland.

I will try again on SP this evening to see if I can locate Edward in Scotland, may find some new information.

Kathy

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:18 am

Ahh! Some of the fog has lifted? Are we still talking Greenock in the 1891?
I see them on the 81. Do you have anything else on William that could tie in with the addresses on census. e.g. marriage cert?

In case Edward wasn't alive at the time, I looked for Martha on G.V. There are 2 in Antrim, Parishes of Finvoy and Loughguille.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:22 am

1873 is my first find of any member of the family in Scotland, that was the year of Alexander's marriage to Agnes Craig.

Widow Martha, with unmarried sons William & Thomas, are next door to Alexander on the 1881 census.

On the 1891 census, residences remain the same, with the absence of Thomas. William is 52yo and unmarried.

Its my guess, that Alexander, with or without his brothers & parents, arrived in Scotland between 1871 & 1873, as I cant locate him/them in the 1871 census.

If Edward joined them in Scotland, he must have died between 1873 & 1881.

Martha died 1901, the registration lists her parents as John Graham & Ann Campbell (both deceased). informant was her son Thomas McNeill 14 John Street East Greenock.

Some of this information, I am now looking at with fresh eyes, I have only just now noticed Thomas on this register, and it even gives his address, I will get back to searching on SP.

So it would seem, that Marth Graham was from Antrim, at least one of her sons was born Derry. I feel as though I have made some progress.

Kathy

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:33 pm

I did manage to locate Thomas & spouse Lizzie Sands on the 1901 census, and guess what, Lizzie Sands was born in Ireland

Thomas & Lizzie married 1883, Edward was deceased at the time of their marriage.

No luck finding a death recorded for Edward in Scotland.

Kathy

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:46 pm

Kathy, just 2 more questions.

1. What was father Edwards occupation on the 1873 marriage cert.

2. Lizzie Sands father wouldn't be a Robert Sands?

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:09 pm

I don't mind the questions Ian, just keep them coming, its making me look at all the paperwork again, just may see something I missed previously.

1873 marriage of Alexander McNeil & Agnes Craig, Edward was listed as a labourer.

1883 marriage of Thomas McNeil & Lizzie Sands, Edward was listed as Labourer, deceased.

I searched the years between 1873 & 1883 for the death of Edward McNeil, no luck.

1883 ---Lizzie Sands, parents listed as William Sands, farmer, deceased. and Jane Sands, deceased (ms looks like Greer or Green).

Kathy