John Prescott

A country in its own right

Moderator: Global Moderators

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Re: John Prescott

Post by LesleyB » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:20 pm

the articles go on to quote the EXPERT in stating it was fairly usual for the eldest daughter to assume ALL the deceased mother's duties.
Yes, the genealogist did say that in the programme. And it was implied that it was not unusual.
"Apparently her father was not a witness at her marriage. " The acticle said he wasn't invited,
I put it that way as I could not work out either how he they would know that had not been invited - it seemed this conclusion abou thim not being there at the marriage was reached as he was not a witness... which again seems a bit of a jump in conclusions. They seemed to be implying too that as none of her sons was named after her father that this also gave weight to the theory. Maybe she and he just did not get on - who knows??

I'd not done any digging apart from a brief look at IGI based on what was mentioned in the programme. I'd gathererd there was a younger sister Caroline too from the programme b. 1828. I thought they mentioned that Athalia was the eldest daughter, so I'd need to go back and watch again, as it looks as though she was not, unless the two others did not survive to adulthood - do we know what happened to them?

Best wishes
Lesley

speleobat2
Posts: 1637
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: USA--Alabama

Re: John Prescott

Post by speleobat2 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:38 pm

Sensationalism and voyerism-for-profit have become almost overwhelming in the media these days. As far as I'm concerned that kind of thinking belongs in the landfill with the rest of the garbage.

Carol :x
Looking for: Clerihew, Longmuir/Longmore, Chalmers, Milne, Barclay in Newhills,
Munro, Cadenhead, Raitt, Ririe/Reary

Anne H
Global Moderator
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: John Prescott

Post by Anne H » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:56 pm

There are three people speaking on the 3-4 minute video clip from the BBC..John Prescott, the genealogist, Gillian Smith and the BBC commentator.

The "expert" Gillian Smith tells him that Atheliah has four children whilst living with her father and that the daughter usually takes over the role of the mother in every way, from what she's heard...it goes on...
John Prescott is the one I heard saying "the evidence is clear, but we can't be 100% certain"...
BBC commentor leading up to the wedding is the one who states her father appears not to have been a guest at her wedding...

It's really sad that the media and so-called experts need to lead people astray and upset them just to make a story seem more sensational. I wish the media and the like would just realize that their viewers would prefer the simple facts about the lives of those who came before us...much more fascinating!

They certainly know how to make themselves look foolish to those of us who seek documented proof where possible.

BBC and Gillian Smith ought to be set straight and not give the real family historian a bad name.

Regards,
Anne H

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Re: John Prescott

Post by LesleyB » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:45 pm

Hi Anne
John Prescott is the one I heard saying "the evidence is clear, but we can't be 100% certain"...
That is what I thought I'd heard too. I'm guessing that the "reporters" have taken that bit and, er...rephrased it so that it turns into "as 100% positive without documented proof", which is not the same thing at all. :roll:

I dunno, it is bad enough that some of these programs whisk family histories of several generations worth out of a hat in a seemingly effortless fashion, giving newcomers to research completely unrealistic expectations of what is involved and expecting everything to just be there with no effort involved, and then they are hugely disappointed when it is found that this is not the case, but now it seems the humdrum history of your average family is not exciting enough and needs to be "spiced up" like a soap opera...... :roll:

Best wishes
Lesley

Anne H
Global Moderator
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: John Prescott

Post by Anne H » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:31 pm

Lesley wrote:
"spiced up" like a soap opera......
Happens all too often..really sad! :cry:

I just Googled Gillian Smith AND genealogist and she comes up with her professional qualifications....hard to believe after listening to that little clip. If I ever decide on an expert for some of my brick walls, she is one "expert" that I won't seek out for her services.

Regards,
Anne H

grannysrock
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:21 am
Location: Belgium

Re: John Prescott

Post by grannysrock » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:44 pm

Such things make my blood boil . It is a crying shame that the dead are not covered by Libel laws. I for one would like to sue on behalf of relatives who are carelessly portrayed in a bad light by people seeking to make a quick buck.

Sally

Currie
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: John Prescott

Post by Currie » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:02 am

I searched for incest in 19C British Library Newspapers and there were 5478 results. The breakdown was as follows: Advertising 2,009, Arts and Sports 332, Business News 1,011, News 2,092, People 34.

I thought the People ones (birth, Death and Marriage notices) would have made interesting reading but no such luck. Advertising, Arts and Sports, and Business News, I didn’t even bother looking at.

There was an interesting item in the North Wales Chronicle, Saturday, May 2, 1885.
Leaves from our early issues – 1815.
Epitaph on a Tombstone at Arlington, near Paris.


Here lie
Two grandmothers with their two grand-daughters,
Two husbands with their two wives,
Two fathers with their two daughters,
Two mothers with their two sons,
Two maidens with their two mothers,
Two sisters with their two brothers,
Yet but six corpses in all buried here,
All born legitimate from incest clear.


I read somewhere that this was also in the Old Virginia Gazette in 1748. Now it’s all over the Internet as a riddle http://www.brainteasercentral.com/riddl ... iddleid=25

Was incest a crime? There’s some interesting reading here. “Up to the 1908 Punishment of Incest Act there was no penalty for incest in civil law in England. In Scotland incest was punishable by death up to 1887.” http://books.google.com.au/books?id=DqA ... 22&f=false

Alan

StewL
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:59 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: John Prescott

Post by StewL » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:41 am

Hi Andy
Just catching up with some older posts, due to the new format and my laziness :(
Having done extensive research in historical child protection (even wrote a paper on it for uni). There is no historical evidence for systematic incest in the past, except in ancient Egypt, Rome and Greece. Yes unfortunately it did happen, but the local church would have been down on the culprit like a bolt of lightning from the heavens.
As for the notion that the eldest daughter took on all the duties of the deceased mother, that would often be true to a point, but it did not include the marriage bed duties.
I agree with you that the so called expert is clutching at straws, and by the way an expert broken down = ex-unknown factor, spert-a drip under pressure.
Stewie

Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson

Post Reply