Researching Price, Abergavenny & Trevethin, Pontypool, M

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Lorna Allison
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Researching Price, Abergavenny & Trevethin, Pontypool, M

Post by Lorna Allison » Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:55 pm

Gratifying results for this beginner with SP on husband's side. Now for me, and not so easy.

Grandmother Florence Mary Price born 1882, orphaned age 7 and taken with sister aged 11 into domestic service in London (I know!!). A brother (name unknown) shipped off to relatives in Australia, name unknown. Father John Price, a farmer in Abergavenny who committed suicide following death of wife and loss of farm through gambling.

Wesleyan Methodists instrumental in placing girls with good family in London.

How to start finding this Welsh end? Where to look? Can anyone help?

Lorna
Last edited by Lorna Allison on Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:43 am

Hi Lorna
and a warm welcome to Talking Scot. :D

I don't think I can help much with your Welsh "problems" - it looks like you have tough job ahead there.... the only thing I can think of is a possible local newspaper report, or death notice of the John Price in Abergavenny. If you had a "time window" for that it would make your search easier too -I guess it was about 1889 which is when you mention Florence was orphaned?

The sister aged 11 and father (and perhaps the brother?) should be in the 1881 census, somewhere!

Best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.

JustJean
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:52 am

Hi Lorna

I can only offer a possibility...it seems a bit of a stretch but would bear following through perhaps.

In order to search the 1881 census I've made several assumptions.
1. John Price was enumerated with his family
2. John Price had a daughter who was born in 1878 name unknown.
3. John Price had a son perhaps but unknown name.
4. John Price was living in Abergavenny.

and so I have searched on those assumptions....and the only family that fits most of the criteria is:

Dwelling: The Cloisters Stanhope St
Census Place: Abergavenny, Monmouth, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342260 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5234 Folio 40 Page 37
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John PRICE M 28 M Clodock, Hereford, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Coachman (Domestic)
Amelia PRICE M 25 F Abergavenny, Monmouth, England
Rel: Wife
Arthur PRICE 4 M Abergavenny, Monmouth, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Minnie PRICE 3 F Abergavenny, Monmouth, England
Rel: Daur
Edith PRICE 1 F Abergavenny, Monmouth, England
Rel: Daur

I have a problem in that there is another daughter on this census and also John's occupation is not as a farmer.

Do you have any further clues at all?

Best wishes
Jean

sporran
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:40 pm
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK

Re: Price family

Post by sporran » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:12 pm

Hello Lorna,


two suggestions.

The first is the 1891 census, when I would hope that the two sisters were together "in service", and you will get ages and places of birth. Perhaps someone with access to Ancestry can find them for you. This will give a better chance of finding the family in earlier censuses.

Secondly, do you have your grandmother's marriage certificate, which will confirm name of father and perhaps have his sister as witness?

Far be it from me to dampen spirits, but Preece is a variation to consider. Both names are very common in these parts (I am about 40 miles north of Abergavenny).


Regards,

John

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:45 pm

Hello Lorna

In your post subject line you have Abergavenny, Parish of Tredegar. Do you know exactly where your grandmother was born? Tredegar is some 15 miles from Abergavenny and thinking in terms of birthplaces given in censuses it would be useful to know. Do you have her birth certificate? This would give her mother's name which would help in an 1881 search. Do you have her sister's name? This again would be useful for 1881.

I can't find anything useful in 1881 or 1891 at the moment. I've tried both England and Wales in 1891 and there are no obvious candidates. There's a Florence Price of the right age as a servant in Beckenham in Kent in 1901 but she gives her place of birth as Pontypool which is again a little way from Abergavenny and in a different direction to Tredegar so I don't think she's very likely.

Do you know whether they went straight to London after their father's death? Ages of 7 and 11 seem a bit young for going into service. I would have thought they might have been looked after by relatives in the Abergavenny area for a while.

As John says, you need to consider spelling variations. As well as Preece you should perhaps consider Pryce, Preice (thinking of Welsh pronunciation) and the Welsh Prys. Tredegar is part of the 'Valleys' and I think most would have been Welsh speaking but a Welsh name would probably have been anglicised after a move to London.

If you have any other details of names, dates, places it would all help.

Mary

Lorna Allison
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Price, Abergavenny

Post by Lorna Allison » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:37 pm

Hi all,

I'm not doing too well with this. My last effort at replying vanished into the ether. Here goes. . .

Thank you SO much for offering help and advice. This is a new experience for me and most welcome.

I did try to be proactive and asked Santa for the 1881 Scotland, England & Wales Census from Family Search. He obliged but unfortunately although the viewer loaded the Index and Census CDs won't load - "The system file is not suitable for running MS DOS & Microsoft Windows etc" which is bound to be rubbish as I'm running Windows XP. Family search Help Line vow to get back to me but I'm still waiting.

Never mind, with friends like you there is still hope. I would like to find some good Welsh sites, but don't expect there is an SP equivalent.

The info I do have is:

Marriage cert:Florence Mary Price, 21yrs, spinster, Housemaid (Domestic) residing at Fernside, 35 Newlands Park, Beckenham. Father: John Price (deceased). Profession: Farmer. Herbert Edward Blackney, 22 yrs, bachelor, Elec Engineer, residing at 4 Acacia Road, Croydon Road, Beckenham. Father: Richard Thomas Blackney, Compositor - married on 09 April 1903 in Wesleyan Chapel, acc to rites of Wesleyan Methodists. Solemnised at the Wesleyan Chapel, Jasmine Grove, Penge, Dist of Croydon.

Siblings: G(or J)inny - who apparently stayed on in Wales and married
Brother - name unknown
Em - who married Fred Smith and went to live in Birmingham. Children: Clifford, Edith and Irene (who died young)

I have no birth certificates.

The story told by an Aunt (deceased) was that after the suicide the local chapel in Wales found Em (11) a position as a domestic servant with a family in Beckenham called Franks. She agreed to go provided she could bring her little sister. This was agreed, with the proviso that Florence (7) would help look after the Franks' children.

Apparently it was considered a token of the Franks' esteem for Florence that she was married from their home. She had met her husband to be at the Wesleyan Chapel Bible Class.

I think that Em's name could have been Amelia although the family always assumed it was Emily.

Florence died 18 Jan 1948 in Springfield Hospital, Balham, Wandsworth, London.

Some years back (long before I started family history) a former colleague told me that a quick look at the 1901 Census showed her:

Florence Price aged 19, b. Monmouth, Abergavenny, Civil Parish of Tredegar and Amelia Price aged 23, b. Monmouth, Abergavenny, residing London, Civil Parish, Camberwell, Domestic Servant.

I think Mary's 1901 census entry in Beckenham sounds hopeful.

I must, sadly, take on board the advice regarding the name spelling, but hey, better to know all that than be ignorant of it. Thanks very much for that.

I will have a go at Ancestry.com as I have a trial period running.

On that topic - anyone know what the financial commitment is there? I am finding it difficult to find out.

Thank you all so much. Anything you find out gratefully received. Meanwhile I too will be on the trail!

Regards

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

Lorna Allison
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Price Monmouthshire

Post by Lorna Allison » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:19 am

Hello Again

I have had a look in the 1881 census and could well be persuaded that "My" family are the family in New Road, Trevethin, Pontypool. Father John is down as Butcher & Milkseller, aged 34, born Pontypool. His wife is Anne Eliz. aged 24 born Skelton Stafford. Daughters names: Sarah Jane (Jinny?) Emily(Em?) and Florence M are just so right.

I think James Price, 66 and Mary Price 63 who live next door will be the grandparents.

No farm of course, but I suppose still a business to lose. No son either but given the age difference between husband and wife I suppose he could have been married before and the son from that marriage could be a teenager and elsewhere on the night of the census. Anyway I'm starting to feel positive.

Still grateful to hear of any no fee or Welsh archive sites.

Regards

Lorna :D
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:31 pm

Hi Lorna

Some success, some confusion!

The 1901 Beckenham entry is definitely your Florence. She's at the correct address - 35 Newlands Park - and living with the Franks family. It has to be her. However, her place of birth is Pontypool, not Abergavenny or Tredegar. There's no sister living at that address.

Florence and her sister are not with the Franks family in 1891. This family are in Sevenoaks at that point and don't have any servants at all. However, there is a Florence M Price aged 11 - not far out - living in Pontypool as 'niece' to John Curzon and his wife Ada. Birthplace again Pontypool. No other Price children there though. Despite the slight difference in age I'm pretty sure it's your Florence and the fact that she's with an Aunt and Uncle would fit with her being orphaned.

Will get back to you tomorrow when I've done a bit more digging and will give you the census details then!

Mary

Lorna Allison
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Price - Wales and Kent

Post by Lorna Allison » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:39 pm

Mary you are a star!

Yes, yes that is my grandmother. The children of the family in Trevethin in the 1881 census are all down as being born in Pontypool and Florence is listed as being 9 months old. I see on the map that Trevethin is a very small place only a mile or two from Pontypool town.

You are right, she must have been taken in by relatives. Perhaps the family were all farmed out until they were old enough to work. I'm glad for her (this family history lark is an emotional roller coaster!)

I think Emily may have been married to Fred Smith by the 1901 census.

The other member I worry about is the brother who is supposed to have been shipped off to Australia but - maybe he doesn't exist since other info passed down has been inaccurate.

I am not being lazy. Just still trying to suss the way England and Wales archive retrieval works. Going to buy a book of website addresses I think.

Thank you so much. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Lorna
Last edited by Lorna Allison on Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:35 pm

this family history lark is an emotional roller coaster!
I quite agree Lorna... :D :-k \:D/ :( ](*,) :-s #-o :lol:

Best wishes
Lesley

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