Researching Price, Abergavenny & Trevethin, Pontypool, M

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MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:58 pm

Hi Lorna

You had me really confused for a minute when I first got into this thread tonight as I thought your post subject had said 'Price Abergavenny Parish of Tredegar' but I guess that must be the bit you've edited. Anyway, in the light of more info, you perhaps need to put the first bit back as well ....

First that 1901 census entry.

1901 Census
RG13/689 - Reg Dist Bromley - Sub Reg Dist Beckenham
Enum Dist 17 - Folio 140 - Page 23

35 Newlands Park
Schedule 164

Percy Franks - Head - Mar - 32 - Secretary to Public Corp(?) CC (County Council?) - born Kent, Sevenoaks
Agnes Franks - Wife - Mar - 31 - born Kent, Sevenoaks
Margaret Franks - Dau - 2 - born Kent, Beckenham
Florence Price - Servant - Single - 19 - Domestic Servant - born Monmouths, Pontypool

In 1891 Percy Franks is living at home with his parents in Sevenoaks - I have the details if you want them - but there are no servants and no-one from the Price family with them.

1891 Census
RG12/4361 - Reg Dist Pontypool - Sub Reg Dist Pontypool
Enum Dist 2 - Folio 34 - Page 16

Sched 95
95 Albion Road, Trevethin (Yes, the schedule and street number happen to be the same for this entry)

John Curzon - Head - Mar - 31 - Printer - born Staffordshire, Longton
Ada Curzon - Wife - Mar - 32 - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Ada M Curzon - Dau - 6 - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
C N(?) J Curzon - Son - 5 - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Gertrude M Curzon - 1(?) - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Stanley G Curzon - 7 (could be 1 or 2?)mo - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Florence M Price - Niece - 11 - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool

Your 1881 find is clearly the same family as they are in Trevethin and Florence's age is about right. I suspect the reason she has knocked a couple of years off her age in the 1901 census and on her marriage cert is because her husband-to-be was younger than her. This is not unusual. My gt-grandmother did the same and shows on her marriage cert as younger than her husband though she was, in fact, baptised before he was born!

You're right about the James and Mary Price next door being grandparents as you will see from below. I also wonder if the Louisa living there as granddaughter is actually another child of John and Anne next door? She could well be the oldest of the family living with grandparents to make more room at home.

Anyway, Louisa seems to be living as a servant with the family of Thomas J Felton in Christchurch, Newport, Monmouthshire by 1891. So far I haven't managed to find either Sarah Jane or Emily in 1891 but I'll have another go tomorrow.

In the meantime ...

1851 Census

HO107/2446 - Reg Dist Abergavenny - Sub Reg Dist Llanarth
Enum Dist 9 - Folio 160 - Page 13

Cwmyoy Lower
Sched 52

Great Llwygy

James Price - Head - Mar - 36 - Farmer (110 Acres) no Labour - born Monmouth, Bwlch Terwyn
Mary Price - Wife - Mar - 33 - Farmer's Wife - born Hereford, Walterstone
John Price - Son - 5 - Farmer's son - born Monmouth, Lower Cwmyoy
Elizabeth Price - Dau - 4 - Farmer's Daughter - born Monmouth, Lower Cwmyoy
William Price - Son - 10 mo (wk?) - Farmer's son - born Monmouth, Lower Cwmyoy
Elizabeth Christopher - Serv - Un - 19 - House Servant - born Monmouth, Lower Cwmyoy

This is definitely the same James and Mary, confirmed by wife Mary's birthplace compared to 1881, and this, I think, must be your John.

Anyway, here is your farmer in Abergavenny!

With the exception of Cwmyoy, I'm pretty certain about the Welsh placenames. I was brought up in Wales from the age of six and am not only familiar with Welsh place names but also speak Welsh myself, though I haven't lived there for many years now. Cwmyoy simply doesn't look or sound right. I would have expected it to be Cwmyry or something like that but it is actually very clear and I've checked it on several pages of the census. It's also transcribed as Cwmyoy in the index so it's not just me! I can't find it or anything like it on any maps or in indexes but it must be near Llanarth and I suspect it is a very small hamlet or cluster of farms.

Looking at the birthplace of John's wife, Anne Elizabeth, in 1881 (Staffordshire, Shelton) and the birthplace of John Curzon in 1891 (Staffordshire, Longton) I would think that John's wife was originally Anne Elizabeth Curzon (Florence is John Curzon's niece) so you might strike lucky with the marriage. She may even have met John when coming to visit her brother John Curzon?

I'll pursue the other censuses tomorrow - I'm sure there's more to find.

By the way, you asked about Ancestry.com. Unless you have a lot of American searching to do, I would go with www.ancestry.co.uk which is the British section. There's no point in paying for the American side if you don't need it. I started with a short subscription a couple of years ago but soon went for an annual one. This costs £69.95 for the year. It sounds a lot but that's less than £1.50 per week - which is good value by the standards of any hobby! - and this gives you unrestricted access to all the censuses 1851-1901 plus a wide selection of other material. The 1841 census should be online soon as well. All the censuses are indexed - though you do need to be creative in your thinking sometimes - and you can also view and download the images of the original.

Mary

sporran
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:40 pm
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK

RE: Cwmyoy

Post by sporran » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:50 am

Hello Lorna and Mary,


I have not been to Cwmyoy (sometimes Cwmyou), but I have looked down on it from the Black Mountains. It is about 5 miles north of Abergavenny at the bottom of the Vale of Ewyas. Even better, Great Llwygy is a couple of miles to the south-east, near the A465, and there are photos at http://www.afhg.co.uk/great_llwygy_farm.htm .

It is great hill-walking country with fabulous views.


Regards,

John

JustJean
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:18 am

Hello everyone

A description from the 1932 Bartholomew's Gazetteer....

Cwmyoy, Upper and Lower, 2 adjoining parsishes in Monmouthshire on the River Honddu, 2 1/2 miles NW of Llanfihangel Railway station. Upper 4741 acres, popl. 139; Lower, 3507 acres, popl 236. Post office called Cwmyoy.

Unfortunately my font doesn't have that little doohickey that fits on the u in Honddu.....and I may have made a spelling error and really wouldn't know it :shock: :lol:

Hope this is of interest

Best wishes
Jean

AndrewP
Site Admin
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Contact:

Post by AndrewP » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:25 am

See also http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Cw ... z1868.html for a description of Cwmyoy from the 1868 National Gazeteer.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:34 am

John/Jean/Andrew

Many thanks for that.

Yes, I found it through GENUKI after I'd posted and that said it used to be Cwmiou which does look more Welsh! As you say, there are some lovely photos available.

Mary

Lorna Allison
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Price Abergavenn & Trevethin

Post by Lorna Allison » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:47 pm

Hello Mary et al

Sorry about that. Didn't know I shouldn't change the main "Headline". Have adjusted it again!

What an absolutely wonderful lot of info. Thanks so much.

Am not able to stop to take it all in - or to look into the pictures (wish I could hillwalk in the Black Mountains sounds fabulous) - but can't wait to get back to it tonight.

Exciting stuff

Regards

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:32 pm

Hi Lorna

The plot thickens! But I'm afraid you'll have to wait till tomorrow for most of it as there's a lot to type up. I'm 99% certain we've got the right family - and possibly that elusive grandson as well! - but I want to check on one or two things before I commit it all to a post.

In the meantime, to give you something else to think about, here's John Price's wife, Anne Elizabeth. She was indeed a Curzon and the brother of John. Here they are aged 4 years and 1 year. These ages match with the census ages in 1881/1891. Anne is down as Annie but that's not unusual and her place of birth here is given as Handley (should be Hanley I think) rather than Shelton as it is in 1881 but both are very close to Stoke on Trent and will be part of the Potteries. John's birthplace of Longton is the same in both censuses. The family has moved from Staffordshire to Lancashire between John's birth in 1859/60 and this census in 1861.

1861 Census

RG9/2560 - Lancashire - Reg Dist Stockport - Sub Reg Dist Heaton Norris
Enum Dist 5 - Folio 111 - Page 34

Sched 186

73 Love Lane

Charles Curzon - Head - Mar - 30 - Book Agent - born Staffordshire, Handley
Sarah Curzon - Wife - Mar - 28 - born Staffordshire, Alton
Charles G Curzon - Son - 5 - Scholar - born Staffordshire, Handley
JohnCurzon - Son - 1 - born Staffordshire, Longton
Annie E Curzon - Dau - 4 - Scholar - born Staffordshire, Handley

I don't know where you're based but there's a message on another FH Forum to say that Gwent FHS are taking part in the BBC's local Open Day, linked to the Who Do You Think You Are? series. This will be held in Tredegar library on 11 February.

By the way, it doesn't matter at all about changing the heading of your post. The reason it confused me was that I had been looking for Florence Price born Abergavenny from what I thought was your heading etc and had initially discarded the Pontypool one because of this. When I opened the thread yesterday and saw 'Price Pontypool' I had a sudden horrible feeling that I must have been doing it all back to front. I soon realised that must have been what you had edited so the confusion was only short-lived!

Mary

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:19 am

Hello again

And now we know how John and Anne met ...

1871 census

RG10/5331 - Monmouthshire - Reg Dist Pontypool - Sub Reg Dist Pontypool
Enum Dist 2 - Folio 57 - Page 63

Sched 274
Railway Parade, Trevethin

Charles Curzon - Head - Mar - 40 - Phrenologist & Traveller - born Stafford, Hanley
Sarah Curzon - Wife - Mar - 38 - born Stafford, Alton
Charles G Curzon - Son - 15 - Tailor - born Stafford, Hanley
Anne E Curzon - Dau - 14 - born Stafford, Hanley
John E Curzon - Son - 11 - Scholar - born Stafford, Longton
Fanny G Curzon - Dau - 2 - born Mon, Trevethin
Jesse Curzon - Son - 11mo - born Mon, Trevethin

(Jesse is indexed as Jane but is definitely a son and once enlarged is clearly Jesse.)

So Charles has taken up phrenology - I wonder where that came from?

Mary

StewL
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:59 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Post by StewL » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:25 am

Mary

According to some information I was given that spelling of Jesse is the male equivalent of Jessie, coming back into popularity again with some families too :lol:
Stewie

Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson

Lorna Allison
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Price - Abergavenny and Trevethin

Post by Lorna Allison » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:57 am

Hi Mary, John, Jean, Andrew

Late at night now and no time to research tonight.

However - what about all your efforts on my behalf!! :P

Mary finds out the name of "Brigadoon" in Wales and the Three Musketeers find the exact spot. Now I am sitting (rather tearfully) looking at beautiful pictures of it and the views beyond. Forgive the emotion won't you? I was a war-time baby and didn't see my grandmother until 1947 when she had what I now realise was onset Alzheimers. She was small, quiet, loving and couldn't bear children quarrelling - "You don't know how lucky you are to have each other" - was her immediate response to her own children's skirmishes apparently. And very understandable given her own family history.

In normal circs. necessarily complex domestic arrangements would preclude a visit to Tredegar Library on Feb. 11th but I am so torn. What an opportunity that would be. I live in rural Perthshire and I don't expect a Mega bus runs direct to Tredegar!! (Local ultra cheap student type transport) I am going to look into transport and get in touch with the owner of a certain super looking holiday cottage though.

Mustn't get too excited though - I will probably have to make it a longer term goal.

Mary, you have the whole tribe appearing out of the mist. You are a wonder woman. I shall get back on the job tomorrow, collate your fantastic info and do my bit (I hope).

Thank you all again - so much.

Before I go - I see notices about Threads Stopping. Don't expect that happens of course when a thread is active, but am I allowed to post my email address for future use in case something came up?

By the way Jean, I see you are researching 'Allison'. I have just been digging them up all over Glasgow, mainly south-side. If you have any there and would be interested in photos of houses or anything let me know. I go down to Glasgow every few months and am planning a photo session next trip. No expert me, a point and shoot kinda gal, but it works pretty well usually!

Regards to all

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

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