Born on The Rock 1871

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david macdiarmid
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Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 8:10 pm
Location: Fife,Scotland

Born on The Rock 1871

Post by david macdiarmid » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:03 am

Hi Guy's,I have been looking for a young lady for a wee while now,she was the StepDaughter of a Great Great Uncle of mine.Mary Ann Clay born 1871 and died in childbirth 8th October 1891 in Glasgow,Scotland,tragically aged only 20 years old.I have searched for her birth., when i have been on Ancestry,thinking she was born in England.This always drew a blank,then recently a relation of Mary Ann's contacted me on Genes Reunited and her information was that,the family moved to Gibralter,when her Dad was posted there.He was Thomas Clay and was a Colour Sergeant in the 78th Highlanders.Mary Ann was born in 1871 in Gibralter.I have a couple of questions; How can i see a copy of her birth certificate? and why a posting to the rock in 1871? Thanks again,David :?
Banks,Bennet-Clark,Bird,Cholat,Clark,Clay,Dupre,Dupuis,Fraser,Grant,Gunn,Hooper
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!

Currie
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Re: Born on The Rock 1871

Post by Currie » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:41 am

Hello David,

Here’s a history of the 78th Highlanders. http://www.electricscotland.com/history ... /ross6.htm

From about halfway down the page you’ll see that the regiment, and its families, were stationed at Gibraltar between August 1865 and July 1867 when they embarked for Canada. They were in Canada until November 1871 when they embarked for Ireland.

According to ‘Stations of the British Army’ published regularly in the UK newspapers the 78th Highlander’s depot companies (recruitment and training etc), were attached to the 93rd at Aberdeen until about September 1871 when they were moved to Edinburgh.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, Thursday, October 20, 1870, mentions that a draft of the 78th Highlanders (Rosshire Buffs) consisting of one Sergeant and 53 men left by City of London for Gravesend, there to proceed to Devonport to embark on HMS Tamer for Halifax. Three women and three children accompany them.

They would have gone from the depot, which means that there were occasionally soldiers of the 78th, and it seems their families, in transit between Scotland and Canada but Gibraltar seems a bit off the beaten track.

The birth may be a bit earlier than you thought or perhaps it occurred in Canada or Ireland. Does she appear on the 1881 or 1891 census and what is her place of birth according to that?

I think they have Army births on FindMyPast, listed under ‘Armed forces births 1761-1994’. They are possibly also available elsewhere. http://www.findmypast.co.uk/MilitaryCho ... chType.jsp

Hope that helps,
Alan

SarahND
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Re: Born on The Rock 1871

Post by SarahND » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:36 pm

Hello David and Alan,

Would this be the family in 1871? If so, then it looks as though she was born a bit earlier, which fits with what Alan found about the regiment:

1871
73 Renfield St, Glasgow Barony
Mary Clay, 27, Head, born Ardersier, Invernessshire, No Occupation
Margaret Clay, 9, Daughter, born England
Mary Ann Clay, 5, Daughter, born Gibraltar
William Clay, 2, Son, born Glasgow

All the best,
Sarah

JustJean
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Re: Born on The Rock 1871

Post by JustJean » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:58 pm

Given the information from Alan and Sarah this is looking quite certain to be the indexed record from FMP of your girl:

GRO REGIMENTAL BIRTH INDICES (1761 to 1924) 1761 - 1924 CLAY to CLAYTON

Mary A. Clay, b. Gibralter, 1866, 78th Regt., recorded in Vol 199, pg 62

Best wishes
Jean

david macdiarmid
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 8:10 pm
Location: Fife,Scotland

Re: Born on The Rock 1871

Post by david macdiarmid » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:55 am

Hi Sarah,Jean and Alan, That is brilliant,thanks.Where do you search these records? Do you think they all travelled as a family to Canada?Oops Thomas Clay died 1st April 1871 in Glasgow (That is where my Watson line comes in).Can i say that i would have struggled for an age to find Mary Ann's Birth,because i have her death in childbirth 8th October 1891 in Glasgow @ 20years old.That is five years out :roll: From some of the info i have from a relation Mary Ann's Mum seems to have gone off the rails,poor woman after Thomas died.Applying for poor relief she was described as being a pauper and a drunken woman who was neglectful of her children.Mary must have hit rock bottom because a 3 year old Son William dies from burns at this time,.I dont have Williams death yet or the RCE so i can't verify it.She was next resident in the Magdalene Asylum in Glasgow (i don't know if they have records).But she meets my Great Great Uncle James Watson and the Clay family took his Watson name through generation after generation.I must sit down and thoroughly work through this line sometime instead of breenging off into all different directions at the same time,so much stuff gets forgotten when i do that,but sometimes i can't help myself.Fingers crossed for Andy Murray in Oz in a couple of hours,C'MON ANDY.David
Banks,Bennet-Clark,Bird,Cholat,Clark,Clay,Dupre,Dupuis,Fraser,Grant,Gunn,Hooper
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!

david macdiarmid
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 8:10 pm
Location: Fife,Scotland

Re: Born on The Rock 1871

Post by david macdiarmid » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:46 pm

I Have Mary Ann's Mother Mary Gordon Born 18th Dec 1844.Getting Married at either Ardesier or Fort George,Invernesshire 7th November 1859 Aged 14 years,surely i have the wrong Mary Gordon.She Marries Thomas Clay who is a Colour Sergeant for the78th Highlanders aged 30years.What do you think?David :?
Banks,Bennet-Clark,Bird,Cholat,Clark,Clay,Dupre,Dupuis,Fraser,Grant,Gunn,Hooper
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!

SarahND
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Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
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Re: Born on The Rock 1871

Post by SarahND » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:23 pm

Hi David,

Where did you find the birth record you have? On familysearch.org there are a few other records at that time, but none specifically Ardesier. Her age of 27 in the 1871 census (if that is correct) would certainly indicate a very young marriage.

record title: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
name: Mary Gordon
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 28 May 1844
baptism/christening place: INVERNESS,INVERNESS,SCOTLAND
birth date: 25 Apr 1844
father's name: John Gordon
mother's name: Margaret Gordon
indexing project (batch) number: C11098-6
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 990980

record title: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
name: Mary Gordon
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 18 Dec 1844
baptism/christening place: INVERNESS,INVERNESS,SCOTLAND
birth date: 12 Nov 1844
father's name: William Gordon
mother's name: Ann Mackenzie
indexing project (batch) number: C11098-6
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 990980

Do you have her in any other censuses? If so, what is her age?

Also, what about her death record-- have you seen that and are her parents named?

All the best,
Sarah

Currie
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Location: Australia

Re: Born on The Rock 1871

Post by Currie » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:24 am

Hello David,

Why the doubts, the age difference, or the young age of the bride?

“Before 1929, Scots law followed Roman law in allowing a girl to marry at twelve years of age and a boy at fourteen, without any requirement for parental consent.”
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/regscot/ ... tland.html

There were no laws about age difference that I know of.

Detailed reports on Scottish marriages are in Parliamentary Papers and at HistPop http://www.histpop.org The HistPop site may be down for maintenance at the moment.

Parliamentary Papers.
1864 [3251] Fifth detailed annual report of the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths, and Marriages in Scotland.

This was the 1859 report, somewhat late, and in that year for the whole of Scotland, there were 4 females married under the age of 15, 7 at age 15, 75 at age 16, 292 at age 17, etc. The corresponding figures for males were Nil under 15, Nil at age 15, 3 at age 16, 17 at age 17 etc. There’s a comment about an extremely rare occurrence at St Andrews, Edinburgh, when a man of 24 married a girl of 11. I assume the rare bit is the age of the bride rather than the age difference.

Hope that’s interesting,
Alan

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