Thomas Stephen (Methlick)

[unklee]

Hello everyone. I live in Australia and I am researching my wife's family history. Her father's family all come from the Aberdeen area. I am having a great deal of trouble with one of them and I am therefore wondering if someone here can help solve the problem please.

My wife's Great Great Grandmother, Elspet Moir, was born in 1833 and grew up in and near Methlick in Aberdeenshire (her parents were George Moir and Margaret Calder). She married John Sangster in 1852, lived in Belhelvie, and had three children. But after Sangster died in 1857, she moved to Aberdeen where she had 4 "illegitimate" children. I have all four birth certificates, and the father is named for two of them but not for the other two. My wife's ancestor is the second of these four children, Thomas Henry Stephen Moir, later known as Thomas Stephen. No father is listed, but the previous child's father was Thomas Stephen and in later life (i.e. marriage certificate in 1891 and death certificate in 1935) Thomas Jnr said that his father was Thomas Stephen (farm worker). My problem is trying to trace this Thomas Stephen (Snr).

I have found the Census information on Ancestry and the BDM information on Scotland's People to be excellent, but I can find nothing definitive for Thomas (no birth, marriage or death, and no census information to locate him in Aberdeen with Elspet, or elsewhere). But I have found that a Thomas Stephen was living in Methlick with his parents, William and Isabel (aka Isabella and Isobel) Stephen in the 1841 and 1851 censuses and his birth date would have been 1836/7. Thus he would have been just a few years younger than Elspet, would have almost certainly known her, and thus could easily have linked up with her in Aberdeen for a few years. But I have no more information on him - no birth certificate, etc - and so no way to link him to Elspet, or to disprove this link.

So I'm wondering if anyone has any information on this Thomas Stephen please, or any possible sources of information, so I can check if he could be the Thomas Stephen of interest to me. The details again are:

Thomas Stephen, born 1836/7 in Methlick.
Parents: William Stephen (Methlick) and Isabel Leslie (Banff), married in 1827 in Methlick.
Thomas appears to have left Methlick around 1855-60 and from then I have no more information.

Thank you very much.

Eric Hatfield (Sydney, Australia)
PS If it would be helpful, you can find the family tree on Ancestry under "Ron McNaughton".

[emanday]

Hi Eric,


Is the mystery Thomas's occupation given on the information where he is named as father?

I finally pinned down one of my "mystery Dads" because he luckily had a relatively uncommon occupation.

[SarahND]

Hello Eric and Welcome to Talking Scot!
You have an interesting puzzle there. I'm wondering if there was any further information on the birth certificates? Was there an RCE on any of them to acknowledge the paternity and if so, was Thomas Sr's location not mentioned? I'm sure you've checked, but just in case...

It seems that there are a couple other Thomas Stephens who might be possible fathers: one born in Auchterless abt 1831, a ploughman in Inverury in 1861. And another born abt 1831 in Tyrie, who is in Aberdeen St Nicholas (where Elspet lived) in 1871, although I can't find him in 1861, the crucial year for the birth of Thomas Jr. In fact, Elspet herself is difficult to find in later censuses. I see her in 1861 with baby Jane Stephen, age 1, but where is she in 1871?

I see why you are having trouble with this one! It is hard to know how to prove which Thomas Stephen was the father.

One possibility you may not have checked is whether there is a mention in the St Nicholas Kirk Session minutes of the illegitimate birth. If so, more information is likely to be given about the reputed father, including his place of residence. Unfortunately, these are not yet online for consultation outside Scotland, but are available at the Aberdeen City Archives (I think...)

All the best,
Sarah

[unklee]

Is the mystery Thomas's occupation given on the information where he is named as father?.

Thanks for your reply, Mary. Yes, he is listed as "farm servant" on all three documents where he is mentioned, which isn't very specific but could still help eliminate some possibilities. I must say I have wondered what a farm servant was doing living in Aberdeen as he is recorded to have been at Jane Stephen's birth (Market St or Haskit St Aberdeen) - would there be many farms within easy travel of the centre of Aberdeen back then?? Just another mystery.

[unklee]

Hello Eric and Welcome to Talking Scot!
You have an interesting puzzle there. I'm wondering if there was any further information on the birth certificates? Was there an RCE on any of them to acknowledge the paternity and if so, was Thomas Sr's location not mentioned? I'm sure you've checked, but just in case...

Hello Sarah and thanks to you and Mary for the welcome. Each of the illegitimate births is different:

• Jane Stephen - father named (Thomas Stephen), father's surname used.
• Thomas Henry Stephen Moir - no father named, her own surname used, but the names of two other men in her life used as given names.
• Mary Ann Moir - no father named, but a note on the birth documentation points to a later RCE which names Francis Henry as father.
• Jane Moir - no father named, no indication. (Note the use of Jane a second time as Jane Stephen had died at 2).

But your question does suggest to me that I should look for RCEs for Thomas and Jane Moir. I only looked for an RCE for Mary Ann because it was noted as a later addition on the birth certificate, but perhaps there are others. Thanks for that idea.

It seems that there are a couple other Thomas Stephens who might be possible fathers: one born in Auchterless abt 1831, a ploughman in Inverury in 1861. And another born abt 1831 in Tyrie, who is in Aberdeen St Nicholas (where Elspet lived) in 1871, although I can't find him in 1861, the crucial year for the birth of Thomas Jr.

My, you have been active! Thanks. Yes, I have looked at every Thomas Stephen I could find, and have put them all into a big table to see if I can follow them through their lives and so eliminate them. If my identifications are correct:

• Auchterless 1831 married Mary Grey and became an innkeeper. Could be him, but I thought not.
• Inverurie ploughman was in Inverurie between the two births (1859 & 1862) - quite possible, but didn't seem to fit with the Market St Aberdeen address.
• Tyrie 1831 was married and had a 3 y.o by 1871, which also was possible if he split from Elspet in 1862, but would have been pretty fast work.

But you are right, all three are possible. I have decided to try the Methlick 1837 Thomas first, but if I can't prove that, I'll have to try all of the above.

In fact, Elspet herself is difficult to find in later censuses. I see her in 1861 with baby Jane Stephen, age 1, but where is she in 1871?

I couldn't find her in 1871, but she appears again, with Thomas, Mary Ann and Jane M in 1881,and I have her death in 1891, all in Aberdeen.

One possibility you may not have checked is whether there is a mention in the St Nicholas Kirk Session minutes of the illegitimate birth. If so, more information is likely to be given about the reputed father, including his place of residence. Unfortunately, these are not yet online for consultation outside Scotland, but are available at the Aberdeen City Archives (I think...)

This is a good possibility. I was in Aberdeen a couple of years ago, but don't know when I'll be back, if ever. I may have to hope the information goes online.

Thanks again. I am trying a few avenues in the hope that someone reads about my problem and has some personal family information.

[nelmit]

Could be coincidence but maybe worth pursuing................

In 1861 at 19 Market Street there is an Arthur Stephen who was born at Fyvie around 1818.

Here he is in 1841 at Auchterless with his brother Thomas who was born at Auchterless.

All born Aberdeenshire-
Thomas Stephen 60 (1851 shows born at Fyvie same as Arthur)
Jean Stephen 50
Arthur Stephen 20
Thomas Stephen 15
Jane Mathieson 10
Catherine Ross 40

The biggest problem I have with this is that Thomas was born in 1825 at Auchterless.

Does Jane's 1860 birth entry give a number of Market Street?

Have you looked at the marriage entry of Thomas Stephen to Mary Gray - were his parents Thomas Stephen and Jane Auld?

Regards,
Annette

[unklee]

Could be coincidence but maybe worth pursuing................

Very much so, thanks a lot.

In 1861 at 19 Market Street there is an Arthur Stephen who was born at Fyvie around 1818.

I can't find this reference on Ancestry - where did you find it? It certainly looks very interesting! And exciting!!

Here he is in 1841 at Auchterless with his brother Thomas who was born at Auchterless.

All born Aberdeenshire-
Thomas Stephen 60 (1851 shows born at Fyvie same as Arthur)
Jean Stephen 50
Arthur Stephen 20
Thomas Stephen 15
Jane Mathieson 10
Catherine Ross 40

This is pretty useful.

The biggest problem I have with this is that Thomas was born in 1825 at Auchterless.

Why is this a problem? I have no reason to suppose his age or his birthplace. I guess you are thinking of your next comment.

Does Jane's 1860 birth entry give a number of Market Street?

Unfortunately, no. There isn't a place on the form for the father's address, but he signed the form as witness and put his address there, so we can be thankful for that.

Have you looked at the marriage entry of Thomas Stephen to Mary Gray - were his parents Thomas Stephen and Jane Auld?

What are you thinking of here? I have the Thomas (born 1831) who married Mary Grey as a separate person to the Thomas (born 1825) who has Thomas & Jane as parents. Are you thinking they are the same? The ages are rough in some of the census data, so you could be right. I haven't looked at the marriage entry, but I will.

Well, your research here has opened up some very interesting possibilities, all because of the Market St connection, which didn't see and haven't been able to find. Thanks so much!

[unklee]

Annette,

I have followed up some of what you have said, and found that the Thomas Stephen who married Mary Gray (in 1871) was indeed the child of Thomas Stephen and Mary Auld, just as you suggested. I missed it because I thought 6 years was too big a gap in their birth dates to be a simple inaccuracy. The marriage certificate gives his age as 38, which means he was supposedly born in 1832, whereas the 1841 census suggests 1825-6 and the birth data says 1825. But maybe he lied about his age to seem younger at his wedding?

So this is the scenario you have suggested:

1825. Born in Auchterless to Thomas & Jane. I have a birth notice with the date 23 Feb.
1841. In Auchterless with family, aged 15 (it appears he has actually just turned 16).
1851. In Old Meldrum, aged 26 (it says 23 but close enough) - a James Stephen is there too (probably a relative but not his brother?)
1859. In Aberdeen (Market St) with brother Arthur and in relationship with Elspet Moir. Jane Stephen is born and Thomas is the father.
1861. Working as ploughman in Inverurie. He should be 36 but is listed as 30.
1862. Thomas Henry Stephen Moir born, Thomas is probably the father but he isn't hanging around.
1870. Thomas has taken up with Mary Gray and baby Mary is born in Tarves.
1871. Thomas and Mary marry in January. Again, his age seems to have mysteriously dropped from 45 to 38.
1881. Now an innkeeper in New Deer with 7 children, and aged 50 instead of 55.
1882. Dies in New Deer, supposedly aged 53 but actually 56 (again, I have documentation). This fits with him being dead when his son Thomas married in 1891.

If this is a correct reconstruction, he seems to have been a bit of an entrepreneur with both his occupation and the ladies. There are a few strange aspects (e.g. the age variations; his moving in and out of Aberdeen around 1860; his rise from farm servant to innkeeper yet still called farm servant on son Thomas's marriage certificate), but it could well be true. I wonder how we could verify it any more?

Thanks again.

[SarahND]

I wonder how we could verify it any more?

This is where the kirk session minutes might help, if you could somehow get a look at them...

All the best,
Sarah

[nelmit]

I should have said Arthur is mis transcribed in 1861 -

19 Market St, St Nicholas

Arthise Stephen 43 born Fyvie, Coffee House Keeper
Elizabeth Stephen 25
James Stephen 1
Margaret Statt 39
Margaret Berry 24

Children of Thomas Stephen and Jane Auld -

Results for: Father: Thomas Stephen, Mother: Jane Auld

1. ELSPET STEPHEN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 APR 1820 Auchterless, Aberdeen, Scotland
2. MARY STEPHEN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 17 NOV 1822 Auchterless, Aberdeen, Scotland
3. THOMAS STEPHEN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 23 FEB 1825 Auchterless, Aberdeen, Scotland
4. ARTHUR STEPHEN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 21 JUL 1816 Fyvie, Aberdeen, Scotland
5. JAMES STEPHEN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 21 NOV 1814 Fyvie, Aberdeen, Scotland

Could be costly with no results but Thomas Stephen husband of Mary Gray died in 1882 and left a will.

Other than that, like Sarah said, the Kirk Session records would be the way to go. Online access is in the pipeline.

Regards,
Annette