James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Useful places to look up facts

Moderator: Global Moderators

Post Reply
patmullarkey
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 pm

James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by patmullarkey » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:59 pm

I am presently researching the death of this James Hunter of East Lothian and would much appreciate assistance from any source, either by posting on this site or by direct email to me - patmullarkeyATgmail.com- in particular from a descendant, or any person who might be in a position to identify a descendant.
This James Hunter was born of farming stock, (probably) James Hunter and Ann Howden, at Stenton, East Lothian on 25/02/1821. His grandfather was the "original" from whom Walter Scott, in his romance of "Guy Mannering" portrayed the character of Dandi Dinmont. And the name of a breed of canine was born.
He moved to Ireland and was appointed Manger/Agent on the 60k + acre Dhoolough Farm at a remote place, known as the Killeries / Ashleagh, near the border between counties Mayo and Galway, for a Captain Houston, from 1853 to 1856. Afterwards he leased a 4,300 acre, part-tenanted, mountain farm at Newfield, Tieranaur, near Newport in the far west of County Mayo. There he was shot dead on 29th August 1869. He had become embroiled in a dispute with some of his tenants, several of whom were charged with his murder but none convicted.His widow, Helen Weddill, or a variant of that name, returned to Scotland late 1880, not being able to extricate herself from the lease earlier. Their daughter Helen, born Newfield 28/10/1857, accompanied her, and they went to (it looks like "Shanmbank"), Abbey St., Bathans, Berwick, to live with her Son Simon, born Newfield 06/12/1858, who had gone two or three years before. The 1881 Census records them living with him, and his wife Isabella, there; as well as "3 servants and a boy", and noted that he was farming 400 acres and had 250 sheep. He had married Isabella Hope Fender at Northfield, Berwick on 23/12/1880. The Census of 1891 records Simon and their two children, James, aged 9, and Robert aged 5, at a new address,- looks like "Whitslaid" in the School Board District of Legerwood - Isabella is not listed, nor is the mother and sister - where he held another farm. The mother, Helen, died in Edinburgh on 17/11/ 1908 - the age given 80 is clearly incorrect - and is buried in Dean Cemetery - she had continued to live with her daughter Joanna at various addresses in the region. Joanna married George Weddell at Edinburgh (St George) on 04/05/1881 but in the 1891 Census, living at 58 Mountpellier Park, Morningside, Edinburgh (her mother with her) she is described as a widow.She seems not to have had children.
In official documents (Census, Marriage,Valuation Rolls etc), subsequent to the 1881 Census the daughter Joanna, continued to style herself with the forename "Helen Cessford" or "Helen C". The Church record of her birth, made at her Baptism on 20/01/1858, at Newport, records her father as James Hunter and her mother as Helen Weddill. But there is a note, presumably made by the Minister, in the record - "Child's name under both Hunter and Cessford". Clearly this related to the surname and not the forename.
I have not been able to trace the birth of a Helen Weddill (or a variant of that name) at Lauder, Berwick, to match the ages given (56 and 77) in the 1881 and 1901 Census' - it would have put the birth as likely to have occurred in the 1823/24 period. I did find the record of a Helen Cessford being born there on 27/04/1823 to a William Cessford and Isabella Purves.
Interesting though this information may be the key to my purpose now is the tracing of descendants of Simon (and Isabella) Hunter's sons, James born c.1882, and/or Robert born c.1885 - grandchildren / great-grandchildren I would expect to be out there in some numbers. I have much information that I'm sure would be of interest to them. Anyone that can help please do.
Happy Christmas to you all at TalkingScots.
Pat Mullarkey, Co Mayo, Ireland.

e-mail address edited (AT=@) to stop spammers. Russell

AndrewP
Site Admin
Posts: 5966
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by AndrewP » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:47 am

patmullarkey wrote:Their daughter Helen, born Newfield 28/10/1857, accompanied her, and they went to (it looks like "Shanmbank"), Abbey St., Bathans, Berwick, to live with her Son Simon, born Newfield 06/12/1858, who had gone two or three years before.
Hi Pat,

One small nugget of info. The place in Abbey St Bathans was Shannabank. See the map linked below.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400789

Abbey St Bathans is the (sort of) yellow coloured parish on the eastmost edge of the map, below the centre. Click on that part of the map until the names become readable.

All the best,

AndrewP

patmullarkey
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 pm

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by patmullarkey » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm

Thank you Andrew (and Russell).
Pat.

isobelw
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by isobelw » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:43 pm

Hi Pat,

The family of Simon Hunter and Isabella Hope Fender emigrated to Manitoba, Canada in 1901. There were six children altogether - James born 1882, Bessie Johnson born 1883, Margaret Fender (Maggie) born 1885, Robert Fender born 1886, George born 1888 and Isabella Hope born 1893. Isabella was staying with her mother in 1891 with Maggie, George and Bessie and Robert and James were with Simon. Simon died in 1933 and Isabella in 1921, both in Manitoba. Bessie, Margaret, Robert an Isabella all appear to have married and had children. George may have died unmarried in Vancouver in 1921. Not sure what happened to James.

Helen Hunter or Weddell died in 1903 age 80 and was the daughter of James Weddell, Land Steward, and Johanna Cessford. This ties in with the parish record of the marriage in Edinburgh in 1853 which describes her as the daughter of James Weddel, sometime Land Steward. James Weddell died in Ratho in 1867 age 85 and Johanna nee Cessford died in Corstorphine in 1886 age 93.

There is a report of the murder of James Hunter in the Fife News and according to that he was a native of Lauder, his father being the tenant of Blyth and latterly Allanshaws. It further states that his brother is a doctor in Lauder and his sister also lives there. 1841 and 1851 census appear to show James living at Blyth with his parents simon Hunter and Alison nee Brown and the birth of a son James to this couple is recorded 30th Dec 1820 in Lauder. I note that you have a different place of birth, different parents for him.

Hope this helps. I don't have any link to this family and have found the information on Ancestry, familysearch and Scotlandspeople.
Isobel

StewL
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:59 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by StewL » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:33 am

Hello Isobel
[TS_welcome]
I am sure your information will be welcomed by Pat.
Pat will be notified of your posting by email :D
Stewie

Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson

patmullarkey
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 pm

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by patmullarkey » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:57 pm

StewL wrote:Hello Isobel
[TS_welcome]
I am sure your information will be welcomed by Pat.
Pat will be notified of your posting by email :D
Hi Isabel
Thank you so so much. That is wonderful information. I couldn't have dreamed of more at this point. And what I appreciate is the work you put into it. The information clearly was not at your fingertips - you had to work to find it. Thank you so much again.
I have now started on the Manitoba end. A lot, a lot of Hunters out there. One might think all the Hunters from East Lothian moved there at some point. I have put a posting on wikitree.com and who knows - the Americans (and hopefully the Canadians) are big into the genealogy thing. But I can never be lucky enough to meet another like you. Cheers for now and happy new year to you, yours, and all Talkingscots.
Pat.

paddyscar
Site Admin
Posts: 2418
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by paddyscar » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm

Hi Pat:

I’ve searched the Manitoba Census and have had little luck. I also did not find them in the immigration records, but if you know the ship and the point of sailing, you may have better results.

http://automatedgenealogy.com

1906 Census Page Data
District: MB Lisgar District (#3)
Subdistrict: 05 (Townships 2, 3, 4 in range 3 west and Plum Coulee Village) Page 40
Image: View image using a split screen
Images are from the National Archives Web Site
Details: Schedule 1 Microfilm T-18354

Provides this record
Hunter? Maggie? Servant Female Single 19
Born – Scotland
Year of immigration – 1906
Post Office address – Myrtle

George's death record - Ypres, Belgium
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collectio ... il/1593220
Born Lauderdale, Berwickshire, Scotland

Home town of the Hunter Family
http://www.svcn.mb.ca/minitonas/aboutus/aboutus.htm

This page will bring up a map and description of town
http://www.city-data.com/canada/Manitoba-Index.html

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11

Searched 1911 Manitoba census Brandon – on resulting page, Robert is line 37. Also tried Lisgar District, with no results

These sites may be of help.

http://www.thatsmyfamily.info/Metamoteu ... ns_en.html

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/gene ... dex-e.html

Manitoba Genealogical Society http://www.mbgenealogy.com/

The family may have originally settled in one of the other provinces, before making the final trek to Minitonas, Manitoba which is 3017.37 kilometres from Quebec city (MapQuest by today's roads)

Frances
John Kelly (b 22 Sep 1897) eldest child of John Kelly & Christina Lipsett Kelly of Glasgow

isobelw
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by isobelw » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:23 pm

Hi Pat,
Glad you found the info useful. They travelled from Glasgow to Halifax, Nova Scotia on the State of Nebraska arriving 2nd April 1901. Final destination was Lake Dauphin N.W.T. In the 1906 Manitoba, Alberta and Saskatchewan census they were living in Dauphin, Manitoba. In 1916 census they were in Nelson, Manitoba and in 1921 in Minitonas.
Regards,
Isobel

patmullarkey
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 pm

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by patmullarkey » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:51 pm

I haven't been here for the past week because I've had the 'flu - with the awful storms passed over its now so mild and peaceful here, but the 'flu is raging.
I have to say to all of you wonderful people again a most sincere thank you. Every nugget of info from everybody is much appreciated. I think everybody will agree that for my case Isobel has to be the researcher of the year.
I have a girl doing some work for me at the Minintonas end. And guess what- she's a Gordon. No prize for guessing her roots (its actually her husband's roots).
It would seem that none of this Hunter family ever returned to Scotland so I dont hold out much hope of finding descendants there.
A seemingly simple question I have not been unable to resolve is find the death record of Joanna (Cessford) Weddell / Hunter (or a variant), the daughter of the murdered James Hunter. The information again:

She was born Joanna Hunter in Co Mayo Ireland 28/10/1857 - father James Hunter - mother Helen Weddill. She married George Weddell at Edinburgh (St George) on 04/05/1881. She appears to have been widowed by the 1891 census. In the Valuation Rolls 1905, as Joanna "Carsford" Widdell (mistake?) she appears as owner/occupier of House No. 58 Mountpellier Park Edinburgh, and 1911 Census, as Joanna Cessford Weddell, she is living at Morningside Edinburgh. There her age is given as 53, when she was in fact 63 - likely a mistake. The second forename "Cessford" was not in her her birth record but a note was added to the record "Child's name under both Hunter and Cessford" (apparently her grandmother's maiden name). She seems to have only started using it as a middle (fore) name from around the time of her marriage. If anyone could find her death record I would much appreciate it.
Sincere thanks again to all Talkingscots.
Pat.

patmullarkey
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 pm

Re: James Hunter - Search for descendants.

Post by patmullarkey » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:12 pm

Sorry for that trouble - found death of Joanna Cessford Weddill (on 15/11/1945 at Edinburgh) on Scotlands People.
Thanks again. Pat.

Post Reply