Archived Vice Consular records

[Dennis]

Hi:)


Would 1850-1950 records of BMD in Morocco of British subjects born, married and died without ever having left Morocco be with the Consular office in Morocco or would they be somewhere else, possibly archived?

[Currie]

Hello Dennis,

People who left the UK to settle permanently in other countries would not have registered subsequent births etc with GRO or GROS or with a British Consul etc unless they had a specific reason to do so. One of the many possible reasons might be if they were living in a country where they were considered as foreign or if they considered themselves foreign. Such a registration would have been entirely voluntary, at the sole initiative of the parents etc, and possibly influenced by the practices of any “British Community” that may have existed there.

Scottish Records of overseas events are in Minor Records detailed here http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=554&624

English overseas events are indexed in the GRO Miscellaneous Indexes as detailed here http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/about/using/g ... ratio.html

Information about British nationals overseas
Indexes to births, deaths and marriages of British nationals overseas are separated from the main St Catherine's House indexes. These additional indexes, known as the GRO Miscellaneous indexes, include:
- War deaths of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Indian Services
- Army births, marriages and deaths
- UK High Commission and Consular births, marriages and deaths
- Air and marine births and deaths.

I’m not sure, but I don’t think the GRO Miscellaneous Index is available yet on Ancestry and the like. If it isn’t then no doubt it’s available at any LDS or other library that has family history microfiche.

Hope this helps,
Alan

[Dennis]

Hi Alan,

This just has to do with the UK missionary folk that went to Morocco, married, had children, all registered with the Consular Office ( one of the births, Albert Mitchell Lennox, July 5 1899 in Mazagan, has the signature C.R.B. Pickford, Acting V.C. ). I'm assuming that the Consular Office was a place that kept records of the activities of those missionary families.



Regards dennis

[Currie]

Hello Dennis,

I think a lot of those remote Vice Consuls were just part timers, operating from home, and had a proper job as well. Any BMDs should have ended up in either of the two places I mentioned. Anything else not BMD that was required to be kept you would think would be in the National Archives.

If all Government records had been kept the National Archives would probably be ten or more times the size it is today. Files that were not required to be kept were usually destroyed.

If there are any old Consulate records still held in Morocco the British Embassy there should know about them. If you’re feeling lucky you could give them a try. http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servle ... 7170886791

Good luck,
Alan

URL edited by HH sunday 6 July 2008

[Dennis]

Thanks Alan,

I've sent them a feedback and will let you know how they reply:)


Regards. dennis

[Montrose Budie]

Note that the Consular Returns of B & D held in Edinburgh only start in 1914, marriages in 1917. Earlier records wil be at GRO or TNA at Kew.

There are records in Edinburgh back to 1860 for foreign events, but these are far from complete.

It is unlikely that consular records relating to BMD have been 'weeded' i.e. destroyed, as there are strong legal reasons for maintaining such records. Never mind that the Foreign Office copied the info to the GRO once it came into existence in 1837, but obviously, could only do so when the information was supplied.

Registration of vital events with consuls or vice-consuls cost and still costs significant sums, which, of course would have to be accounted for; but also could act as a disincentive to make such a registration.

Accessibility was also a major factor, - I recently came across a family in Brazil in the 1870s/80s where, of 6 kids, 3 were registered and 3 not, and guess which of the two locations involved had a vice-consul?

If you ever email a consular office direct, don't be surprised if you don't ever receive a reply, - some can be incredibly helpful, but many others, sadly, won't give you the time of day !

In the specific Moroccan instance mentioned it quite possible that the present consul won't have the faintest idea about early records, as these were sent to London on an annual basis, with later 'weeding' of local copies very likely - it's TNA at Kew who will know the answer. That written it's not impossible that there will be a local consular official who is a records history fan!

I'm unsure about local records in Morocco, but have a look at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jfull ... FR-MOROCCO.

Local records overseas can be very good, where they have survived, especially if the country was part of a foreign empire, e.g. Portugal and Spain for much of S America.

For missionaries it's often the case that the society that sent them out to Morocco, or a successor organisation will have kept records of their missionaries' activities.

MB

[Dennis]

Thanks for the info MB:)

I did not know about Consular Returns; are they accessable online?


Regards. dennis

[Montrose Budie]

Thanks for the info MB:)

I did not know about Consular Returns; are they accessable online?


Regards. dennis

Under the 'location' Minor Records on ScotlandsPeople - see the Counties/Cities/MinorRecords drop down list, e.g. -

No Year Surname Forename Sex District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1 1995 LOPEZ SMITH JOHN CHARLES M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0446 No Image ORDER
2 1995 LOPEZ SMITH JOHN CHARLES M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0446 No Image ORDER
3 1983 SMITH ANDREW JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 1940 No Image ORDER
4 1983 SMITH ANDREW JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 1940 No Image ORDER
5 1984 SMITH COLIN JOHNMAN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0121 No Image ORDER
6 1984 SMITH COLIN JOHNMAN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 1686 No Image ORDER
7 1975 SMITH CRAIG JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0673 No Image ORDER
8 1987 SMITH CRAIG JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0797 No Image ORDER
9 1987 SMITH CRAIG JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 1237 No Image ORDER
10 1992 SMITH CRAIG JOHN W M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0347 No Image ORDER
11 1985 SMITH DEREK JOHN CHAR M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 1527 No Image ORDER
12 1975 SMITH DOUGLAS JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0164 No Image ORDER
13 1978 SMITH DOUGLAS JOHN H M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 1296 No Image ORDER
14 2003 SMITH EVAN JOHN CATHR M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0580 No Image ORDER
15 1984 SMITH IAIN JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 1464 No Image ORDER
16 1990 SMITH JOHN ALEXANDER M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0863 No Image ORDER
17 1986 SMITH JOHNATHAN DAVID M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 1431 No Image ORDER
18 1993 SMITH KYLE JOHN GRASS M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0812 No Image ORDER
19 1982 SMITH MARTIN JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0157 No Image ORDER
20 1982 SMITH MARTIN JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0157 No Image ORDER
21 1995 SMITH PAUL JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0307 No Image ORDER
22 1995 SMITH PAUL JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0307 No Image ORDER
23 2002 SMITH STEPHEN JOHN PA M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0037 No Image ORDER
24 1982 SMITH STUART JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0722 No Image ORDER
25 1982 SMITH STUART JOHN M CONSULAR RETURNS /MINOR RECORDS 999/MN 0722 No Image ORDER

I'm not sure about the availability of the GRO ones at Kew.

MB