Ehhhh?..... ** birthday bumped post **

The History and Geography of Auld Scotia

Moderators: Global Moderators, Russell

Site Admin
Posts: 5587
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Sat May 13, 2006 4:51 am

Thanks for the important and entertaining topic! I am also going to Scotland later this year and look forward to hearing how you manage! As a prof of phonetics, I don't have any trouble with the 'ch' sound or the glo'al stops (just be glad there are no click consonants!) but place names the world over are unpredictable and known only to locals. I once found myself digging in the courthouse in Nevada, Missouri (that's ne VAY da, middle syllable rhymes with "hay") trying to track down my great grandmother (who must have said it like that :shock:)-- And my students from Oregon cringe when a Wisconsonite says Ora gone (last syllable rhymes with 'John') [-X

A puzzle for Catriona: how do you think the locals pronounce Fraisse (near the Mediterranean coast between Narbonne and Perpignan)? heh heh. You can guess it is a trick question to separate the sheep from the goats! (or the Parisiengs from the Occitans) :twisted:

When travelling, I always try to avoid naming the place until I hear someone say it! The worst are the French place names in the U.S.... like Malax for Mille lacs (when I first moved to Minnesota I thought they were referring to some kind of laxative :shock: or Vincennes, Indiana (VINsinz)

Thanks to Anne for the Aberdeenshire names.... that's where I'm headed. (How about Footdee.-- "Fi'ee" I've heard...)

Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sat May 13, 2006 5:06 pm


I reallly struggled in Baltimore because I insist in trying to pronounce the name of the state as though it has vowels in it when every local knows that it is Mrylnd. (one syllable)

Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

Site Admin
Posts: 5587
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Sat May 13, 2006 5:49 pm

nn, hw cld y? Wh nds vwls?

Posts: 10
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 11:22 pm
Location: Sunderland North East England

Post by bramwellanne » Sun May 14, 2006 11:36 am

Please please tell me when is the party held [-o<
I am visiting Edinburgh,Cumbernauld,Inverness,Thurso (and thanks to Russell) Wick. If its on when I am on my travells can I still come or will you keep something back for me ( I love doggy bags) :wink: . I hope to be logging on periodicaly at some of the places I visit.

I have really enjoyed this thread and would hate to miss a good party, good food,good drink and of course good friends

Sarah it did take me a minute to work out what you said LOL

Morrison,Brebner,Michie,Heatherwick(Hedderwick). Ambrose,Dalzeil,Kennedy,Richardson

Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sun May 14, 2006 1:47 pm


The European Commission have just announced an agreement whereby English will now be the sole, official language of the EU rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase-in plan that will be known as "EuroEnglish": --

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favor of the "k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"'s in the language is disgracful, and they should go away. By the 4th yar, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaiining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!

And if you like that, then have a look at, but, please, please don't go there if the "f" word and similar, or "doubtful" jokes offend you :!: :shock:

For those who prefer to avoid such situations, the immediate connection to this thread is the following from the site ............

Translations: Southern United States to English

BARD - verb. Past tense of the infinitive "to borrow."
Usage: "My brother bard my pickup truck."

JAWJUH - noun. A highly flammable state just north of Florida.
Usage: "My brother from Jawjah bard my pickup truck."

MUNTS - noun. A calendar division.
Usage: "My brother from Jawjuh bard my pickup truck, and I aint herd from him
in munts."

IGNERT - adjective. Not smart. See "Auburn Alumni."
Usage: "Them N-C-TWO-A boys sure are ignert!"

RANCH - noun. A tool.
Usage: "I think I left my ranch in the back of that pickup truck my brother
from Jawjuh bard a few munts ago."

ALL - noun. A petroleum-based lubricant.
Usage: "I sure hope my brother from Jawjuh puts all in my pickup truck."

FAR - noun. A conflagration.
Usage: "If my brother from Jawjuh doesn't change the all in my pickup truck,
that things gonna catch far."

TARRED - adjective. Exhausted.
Usage: "I just flew in from Hot-lanta, and boy my arms are tarred."

RATS - noun. Entitled power or privilege.
Usage: "We Southerners are willing to fight for out rats."

FARN - adjective. Not local.
Usage: "I cudnt unnerstand a wurd he sed ... must be from some farn country."

EAR - noun. A colorless, odorless gas (unless you are in LA).
Usage: "He can't breathe ... give 'em some ear!"

GUMMIT - Noun. An often-closed bureaucratic institution.
Usage: "Great ... ANOTHER gummit shutdown!"



Site Admin
Posts: 5587
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Sun May 14, 2006 3:59 pm

David, One of my students (from Arkansas) gave me an "Arkie" dictionary that is full of entries like the ones you mentioned. I make my students analyze them and figure out what the rules are for going from one dialect of the language to another... :shock:

Bramwellanne, you have to admit though, it is easier to understand a sentence with no vowels, than one with no consonants! My note to Anne would have been: Ae, o ou ou? o ee oe? :!:

Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:24 am
Location: Udora, Ontario, Canada

Post by rdem » Tue May 16, 2006 12:25 pm

Sounds like the conversation between Buchan men at a wool fair.

1st man: Oo?
2nd man: Aye oo
1st man: a' oo?
2nd man aye a' oo


1st man: Wool
2nd man Yes wool!
1st man: All wool?
2nd man: Yes all wool
Dempsey, Bon(n)ar, Brown, O'Donnell (2), Morgan, McDonald, McNeillis, Graham, Moor, Gallocher, Donnelly, Dougan.
Hampton, Stewart (2), Wilson (2), Main, Thomson, MacPherson, Thaw, Watson, Barclay, Kinloch, Brand (2) Murray, Harper. Edward(s) Nicol

Site Admin
Posts: 5587
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Thu May 18, 2006 2:58 am

Just cleaning out my office and found this bit on a handout from the Introduction to Linguistics class when we discuss writing. Since it was cut and pasted from a handout I received way back when I took the class myself (my prof was from Ayrshire) I'm not even sure where this comes from... but it says Leonard 1984, whatever that might be. Anyway:

Yi write doon a wurd, nyi sayti yirsell, that’s no thi way a say it. Nif yi tryti write it doon thi way yi say it, yi end up wi thi page covered in letters stuck thigithir, nwee dots above hof thi letters, in fact yi end up wi wanna they thingz yi needti huv took a course in phonetics ti be able ti read. But that’s no thi way a think, as if ad took a course in phonetics. A doant mean that emdy that’s done phonetics canny think right -- its no a questiona right or wrong. But ifyi write down ‘doon’ wan minute, nwrite doon ‘down’ thi nixt, people say yir beein inconsistent. But ifyi sayti sumdy, ‘Whaira yi afti?’ nthey say, ‘Whut?’ nyou say, ‘Where are you off to?’ they don’t say, ‘That’s no whutyi said thi furst time.’ They’ll probably say sumhm like, ‘Doon thi road!’ anif you say, ‘What?’ they usually say, ‘Down the road!’ the second time -- though no always. Course, they never really say, ‘Doon thi road!’ or ‘Down the road!’ at all. Least, they never say it the way it’s spelt. Coz it isny spelt, when they say it, is it?
[Leonard 1984:73]

Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Thu May 18, 2006 7:32 am

'Ats Tam Leonard, ken, - see here, sae mair a Glesca man, but. The key's in the elision that gives leading "n"s in place of "then", "and", etc; together with the Parliamo Glasgow style running together of words.

Ayrshire, as you'll recall from your professor, is more Lallans (but not Burns, - he lifted his poetic vocabularly from all over)........... but then is the modern distinction between Lallans and The Doric artificial?, - now there's a question for a professor of phonetics :!: :wink:


<URL width shortened to fit page - LesleyB>


Site Admin
Posts: 5587
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Thu May 18, 2006 2:09 pm

Thanks, David! I was hoping you'd chime in with the correct reference ! :wink:

I'm planning a trip to Scotland 5 or 6 months from now and look forward to hearing for myself the distinction (or not) between Lallans and The Doric. When I was a student, that same professor had me transcribe several recordings he had made of conversations with people in Aberdeen :shock: It was quite a challenge for someone who had never heard the language/dialect before! But it intrigued me and as it turned out, Aberdeen is exactly where I need to go for genealogical research :D (although I didn't know at the time that I had ancestors who came from there)


Post Reply