Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

Moderator: Global Moderators

Post Reply
Victoria50
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:49 pm

Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by Victoria50 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:29 pm

Hello,

I am trying to find information on the early life of my great grandfather, John Paterson. As far as I know he was born in 1855 in Argyll, but left to travel to London when he was about 18, why I don't know. I have found him on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 England censuses in Southwark and Bermondsey - I'm sure about those because my grandmother and her two sisters are on those as well. The 1881 England Census mentions a John Paterson who was still single then, but I have no way of knowing if that is him for sure. I have his death certificate, so I know he died in April 1930 aged 75 in London, so that would tie in with an 1855 birth, but I can't find definite details of when he was born, and therefore who his parents were. Has anyone any ideas on how I can narrow down the many John Patersons that appear?

Thank you for any help.

Victoria

WilmaM
Posts: 1525
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by WilmaM » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:31 pm

First of all: [TS_welcome]

Perhaps you could give us a few more details.

Who did he marry, and do you have their marriage details? that should give at least his father's name.

His death certificate - you say you have that, what other details are on it?

Where did you get the information about his birth place - census records? they usually would only give a country not area [ ie just Scotland]
and his move south, where did you read hear of that?

What was his occupation too?

If he was indeed born in 1855 in Scotland then you've hit a nugget - that year has the most information on the official records.

There are 2 John Paterson births for 1855 , and 1 1856 in Argyll on Scotlands People: Kilbrandon & Kilchattan and Campbelltown.
No way of knowing which it may be at present.

1861 census on freecen has 3 young John's of the right age in Argyllshire :
1. With parents Wm & Catherine and siblings in Saddell
1871 still on Low Airds farming with the rest of the family.
2. father Lachlan a blacksmith [mother dead? as sister is housekeeper] living at Clachaig , Dunoon & Kilmun
1871 he is a slate quarrier in Cullipool [isle of Luing ?] father may have married again
3. father also John an Innkeeper in Corran Kilmore & Kilbride - in 1871 he is a pupil teacher in Oban

In the 1881 census 1. & 2. are in the same places but 3. isn't anywhere obvious.

The above may all be rambling if your John Paterson doesn't turn out to be from Argyll after all - but on the other hand it may help if you can tie your information up with any of it.

Victoria50
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by Victoria50 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:31 pm

Hi Wilma M,

Thank you for your welcome and for your reply. I will give as many answers as I can in the order you asked them.

1. The 1891 and 1901 Censuses list Ellen Paterson as John's wife, although I have never found any marriage details at all. Their daughter Nellie was my grandmother, born in 1888 in Bermondsey. I have Nellie's birth certificate which names John Paterson as her father and Ellen Paterson, formerly Costin as her mother. Their second daughter Flora's birth certificate states the same, with the addition of Ellen Paterson, late Gardner, formerly Costin as her mother's name. I found a marriage between Ellen Costin and an Edward Gardner in 1883, so it leads me to question whether John and Ellen were ever actually married.

2. John's death certificate states that he died on 5th April 1930 at 79A Bishops Road Bethnal Green, aged 75 years. It gives an address of Meadows Dwellings, Bethnal Green and that he was formerly a dock labourer. It gives the medical details and that Flora, his daughter, my great aunt, was present at his death. Flora's address at that time was one that my mother recognised.

3. The 1911 census gives his birthplace as Scotland, Argyle (spelt like that). His move south was what my grandmother always told my mother, but no more detail than that.

4. On the 1891 census his occupation was a railway porter, so he became a dock labourer later on.

5. My mother was always told he had some connection with Oban, so that sounds promising for No.3 especially if there isn't any record of him in the 1881 Scotland census, as he would have left Scotland by then if he left when he was about 18.

I do feel that I have been rambling on, but does any of this help.

Thank you,

Victoria

WilmaM
Posts: 1525
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by WilmaM » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:01 pm

Were there no parents' names on his death cert? I'm a bit hazy as to non Scottish records.

I only checked the census for Argyll, so number 3 could be else where in Scotland. I doubt though that a lad who was a pupil teacher would end up being a docker.

If you go to the Scotlands people web site, you can search yourself, the LDS 1881 is free to view as its a transcription, the rest are pay to view.
Freecen is a good resource too but not complete.

Without having even a fathers name to go by it'll be hard to single him out.
Not sure where to go from here ](*,)

Victoria50
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by Victoria50 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:58 am

I’ve found the Scotland’s People site to be very informative - there does seem to be more information available on Scottish birth certificates than English ones and there are no parents names on English death certificates - I wish there were! Never mind, thank you for your help anyway - I might find something definite one day and I will keep looking.

Victoria

nelmit
Posts: 3926
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by nelmit » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:57 pm

I think this is him lodging in Bermondsay,London in 1881 -

John Welch 53
Eliza Welch 50
John Paterson 26 Lodger, Railway Porter born Scotland
George Paterson 25 Lodger, Seal Skin Dresser born Kemble, Middlesex
Emma Paterson 20

I think it is a coincidence that there is a George Paterson lodging there too but it might be worth investigating.

Regards,
Annette

Victoria50
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by Victoria50 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:46 pm

Thanks for looking Annette - I think that could be him as well, and I couldn't find any connection to George and Emma Paterson either. It's not until 1888 when my grandmother was born that I can be sure that I have the right person at all really, but I will keep looking, as I would love to discover more about his life in Scotland and what made him decide to move to London. Something might turn up one day and thanks for your help.

Victoria.

Elwyn 1
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by Elwyn 1 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:19 pm

Victoria,

I don’t know anything about your particular ancestor’s specific circumstances but if he moved from Argyll to London when he was aged 18, he probably did so because London offered far better employment prospects than rural Argyll. Throughout the 1800s hundreds of thousands of young men and women in rural areas across Scotland and the rest of Britain moved to cities for exactly the same reason. It would not have been an unusual move.

Elwyn

Victoria50
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: Looking for John Paterson in Argyll

Post by Victoria50 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:47 pm

Thanks Elwyn - that does make sense.

Victoria.

Post Reply