McVake.....

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:15 am

Hi again

I think you should wait on DWW post as it looks as though he has lots more info for you

Jean

Scozzie · Post by **Scozzie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:39 am

The information re William Clark & Catherine "McVake" came from my aunt. She knew they had a daughter Margaret, as Margaret was HER grandmother, and she was named after her. My aunt knew there were at least two sisters, she thought they were Annie and Helen - I have NO idea where I got their birthdates, but it looks like they are totally wrong. Rule No 1 - don't trust relatives' memories!!

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:00 pm

Hi Scozzie

Relies information is often a good place to start, but it needs to be checked on birth, death and marriage certs, also censuses.

Start with what you know is gospel and then work backwards. Marriage certs are good as the couple's parents are shown, including the mother's maiden name. Also you sometimes get clues from the witnesses to the marriage, who are often relatives. Death certs are good for us too as the informant to the death is normally a relative and the relationship is shown.
Birth certs show the date of the parents marriage.

When you get back to the 1870's, and before, then the IGI site comes into it's own. If you know a couple's names then you can enter them and hopefully get a list of children. Again if you know the couple's names you can find their marriage. Of course they need to have been entered in the OPR records (sometimes they weren't!

Jean

Scozzie · Post by **Scozzie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:05 pm

Thanks Jean. By "IGI", do you mean the LDS site? I"ve tried that with a little bit of success with some branches, but absolutely nothing on others. They don't pay much attention to detail, I've found siblings with different spelling of the parents' names. I've also found siblings born 6 months apart!

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:21 pm

Scozzie wrote:The information re William Clark & Catherine "McVake" came from my aunt. She knew they had a daughter Margaret, as Margaret was HER grandmother, and she was named after her. My aunt knew there were at least two sisters, she thought they were Annie and Helen - I have NO idea where I got their birthdates, but it looks like they are totally wrong. Rule No 1 - don't trust relatives' memories!!

You got it

Thought that this would be a nice simple one to break myself back in after 6 weeks in Kiwi land……………… little did I know …………

Where Annie b 1858, Helen b 1856, and Margaret b 1864 fit into the picture I’m not quite sure………

This is a classic case of the need to start from known info and work back, not least in order to validate info from other sources…….

In this case, that involved going back to the 1898 birth of Catherine McVaik SMITH showing her parents as Margaret CLARK and Thomas SMITH, who married in 1896, showing Maggie’s parents as William CLARK, except he wasn’t, as Margaret’s 1870 birth register entry shows him as John, as does the 1898 death register entry of 70 years old Kate (Catherine) McVAKE, widow of John CLARK.

Margaret/Maggie had several siblings, some of whom turn up in IGI in the 1855 and later records that are included in IGI, -

Father: John Clark, Mother: Catherine Mcvake

International Genealogical Index / British Isles

ROBERT CLARK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 10 SEP 1856 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

MARTHA CLARK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 26 JAN 1859 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

JOHN CLARK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 31 AUG 1861 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

JAMES CLARK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 09 SEP 1866 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

MARGARET CLARK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 06 SEP 1870 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

..but there were others prior to 1855, including Andrew …… John and Catherine married in 1850....

Catherine (Kate) McVAKE had at least 3 siblings, all of whom married and produced kids etc., in Lesmahagow.

There are post 1854 death register entries for both parents of Catherine (Kate) McVAKE’s parents, - I’m deliberately being obtuse as it’s obvious that Scozzie wants to do the research!! On one of them there’s an RCE which may produce the names of the parents which don’t appear on the original entry……….

What else ?

A very good example of the benefit, with such an unusual surname, of doing a one-name study in the main parish involved, as well as the county and all-Scotland, but beware of spelling variations, - in this case, in two instances, McVICKER and MILVAKE.

Such a one-name study will allow the various McVAKE threads to be teased out, ..... however uncommon a surname is, if there's a large family, most or all of whom remain in the same parish, marry and also produce kids, it can take considerable effort to tease out the various threads, especially if these families follow Scottish naming patterns

But I still don’t know where the "original" Annie, Helen and Margaret fit into the picture. Please let me know when you find out

And I haven’t even had a look at the 1871 census ……………

Davie

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:26 pm

Hi Scozzie

Yes LDS and IGI are the same.

I don't know about children being born 6 months apart. I have never come across that.

However the different spellings of the names is very common. Remember a lot of our relies couldn't read or write. Information was passed verbally to whoever was entering the details in the register. If our relies couldn't read or write then they couldn't check the spelling.

I have one family whose name is Neil and I have found it spelled Neil, Neill,
Neal, Neall, Niel, Niell.

This is why, sometimes, on the Scotlandspeople website, we have difficulty in finding people. If we don't spell it the way they do then we often draw a blank. It's the same with Christian names. You have to learn us use wildcards. e.g. Someone called Ann,could be Anne or even Annie. The way to look is to enter it Ann*. That way everyone registered as Ann, Anne and Annie will show up.

Jean

Scozzie · Post by **Scozzie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:28 pm

Ah Davie - you're tormenting me! ha! I've only recently started looking seriously for ancestors. Most of what I've got came from family members (like my aunt with the selective memory). The problem is that Scottish families are notorious for giving their children a name (which appears on the birth certificate) and then calling them something else. In my generation, myself and three cousins are not known by our birth names! You've given me a few more pointers. I've got to wait for Mr Scozzie to take a day off & play golf, so that I have a quiet day on my own with the computer.

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:59 pm

Scozzie wrote:Ah Davie - you're tormenting me! ha! I've only recently started looking seriously for ancestors.

No tormenting intended

Just that you commented earlier in the thread that you preferred to be pointed in the right direction rather than given the info on a plate.....

Davie

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:16 pm

Hi Scozzie,

Just some pointers to start you off...
I wonder if this is William & Janet - no harm in looking at the original page to check spelling.

WILLIAM MAHRAKE
JANET SCOTT
Marriage: 06 APR 1823 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
==
John CLARK & Catherine was the very next entry after William McVICAR's household in 1851, but on the following page.

1851 cens 649 (655) Ed 12 p 7 (Lesmahagow)
Auchenheath. [schedule 28]
William McVICAR [sic], head, marr, 50, coal miner, b Colmonell, AYR
Janet McVICAR, wife, 45, ------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
William McVICAR, son, u/m 25, coal miner, Lesmahagow, LKS
John McVICAR, son, u/m 20, coal miner, Lesmahagow, LKS
Robert McVICAR, son, u/m 18, coal miner, Lesmahagow, LKS
Alexander McVICAR, son, 12, coal miner, Lesmahagow, LKS
Mirion McVICAR, daur, 10, scholar, Lesmahagow, LKS
Thomas HOGG, visitor, u/m 62, formerly weaver, b Peebles, PEE
&
1861 cens 649 Ed 13 p 10 (Lesmahagow)
Auchenheath (Messrs. Ferguson & Co. Works).
Newhouses. [sch 43]
// William McVAKE, head, widower, 60, labourer (mineral), b Colmonell, AYR
William McVAKE, son, u/m 35, coal miner, b Lesmahagow, LKS
William CLARK, gr-son, 9, scholar, b Lesmahagow, LKS
Janet CLARK, gr-daur, 7, scholar, b Lesmahagow, LKS
/ Alexander McVAKE, head, marr, 22, coal miner, b Lesmahagow, LKS
Ann McVAKE, wife, 22, -------- b Morningside, Edinburgh
Christina McVAKE, daur, 2, ------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
Janet McVAKE, daur, 1, ------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
----
1861 cens 649 Ed 13 p 14 (Lesmahagow)
Auchenheath (Messrs. Ferguson & Co. Works).
Langlea Terrace. [sch 61]
Robert McVAKE, head, marr, 28, coal miner, b Lesmahagow, LKS
Jean McVAKE, wife, 27, --------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
William McVAKE, son, 4, ------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
Janet McVAKE, daur, 1, -------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
====
1851 cens 649 (655) Ed 12 p 8 (Lesmahagow)
Auchenheath. [sch 29]
John CLARK, head, marr, 25, coal miner, b Lesmahagow, LKS
Catherine CLARK, wife, 23, --------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
Andrew CLARK, son, 4mos, -------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
James MAXWELL, visitor, u/m 22, coal miner, b Muirkirk, AYR
&
1861 cens 649 Ed 13 pp 7/8 (Lesmahagow)
Auchenheath (Messrs. Ferguson & Co. Works).
Newhouses. [sch 29]
John CLARK, head, marr, 35, coal miner, b Lesmahagow, LKS
Cathrine CLARK, wife, 33, ------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
Andrew CLARK, son, 10, scholar, b Lesmahagow, LKS
Robert CLARK, son, 4, --------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
Martha CLARK, daur, 2, -------- b Lesmahagow, LKS
William CRAWFORD, lodger, u/m 33, coal miner, b Douglas, LKS
--
Jack

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:35 pm

And 1881 .......

Dwelling: 4 Longlee Terrace
Census Place: Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203695 GRO Ref Volume 649 EnumDist 13 Page 7
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John CLARKE M 55 M Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Coal Miner
Catherine CLARKE M 53 F Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Coal Miner Wife
Robert CLARKE U 24 M Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
John CLARKE U 19 M Lesgow Parish ((Auchinheath)), Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
Donald CLARKE U 17 M Lesgow Parish ((Auchinheath)), Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
Margaret CLARKE 10 F Lesgow Parish ((Auchinheath)), Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Walter YOUNG 6 M Lesgow Parish ((Auchinheath)), Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Grand Son
Occ: Scholar

Dwelling: Hazelbank
Census Place: Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203695 GRO Ref Volume 649 EnumDist 15 Page 6
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Jane MC VAKE W 47 F Lesmahagow,
(widow of Robert ??, sibling of Catherine)
Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Dressmaker
Robert MC VAKE U 17 M Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
William MC VAKE 11 M Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Jane MC VAKE 6 F Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Elizabeth MC VAKE 2 F Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Samuel ALLAN U 40 M Antrim, Ireland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Coal Miner

Dwelling: 1 Littlegill Rows
Census Place: Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203695 GRO Ref Volume 649 EnumDist 13 Page 14
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Alexander MC VAKE M 43 M Dillarburn
(brother of Catherine)
Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Coal Miner
Anne MC VAKE M 43 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Coal Miner Wife
William MC VAKE U 19 M Auchinheath Lesgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
John MC VAKE U 17 M Auchinheath Lesgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
Catherine MC VAKE U 16 F Auchinheath Lesgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Miners Daur Dom Serv
Alexander MC VAKE 14 M Auchinheath Lesgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
Margaret MC VAKE 11 F Auchinheath Lesgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Robert MC VAKE 3 M Auchinheath Lesgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son

Davie