Hi
Looking for an opinion or two here as I am a bit confused:
Searching on behalf of my friend (I only have one) I have found her 2x great grandfather as follows:
Robert Sutherland who died aged 57 in Kilmarnock in 1879 son of Henry Sutherland, Shoemaker deceased and Elizabeth Sutherland m.s. McNair deceased. The informant was his uncle John McNair
I can't find a death for Elizabeth McNair or Sutherland anywhere and this despite extensive searching online and at NRH so must presume she died pre- 1855.
A John McNair, shoemaker, dies in Kilmarnock on 21/06/1886 aged 66. His parents are John McNair, Shoemaker (deceased) and Ruth McNair m.s. Blades (deceased). Informant his widow Margaret.
A John McNair aged 70 Shoemaker with a wife Margaret 58 appears in the 1881 census born Ireland. He is the only likely candidate and I think someone either enumerator or registrar must have misheard his age. Though I suppose it could be another John NcNair, Shoemaker married to Margaret.
According to the IGI the children of John McNair and Ruth Blades all born Kilmarnock are Ruth McNair born 9/07/1817, Anne Blades McNair born 9/7/1825 and Agnes Blades McNair born 6/5/1822. No Elizabeth.
In Kilmarnock in 1851 we have the following menage at 5 East Shaw Street:
John McNair Head Widower 76 Shoemaker Kilmarnock
Ann McNair Daur Unm. 25 Handsewer Kilmarnock
John A McNair Visitor Unm 41 Shoemaker Ireland
Ruth Sutherland Grand-daur 9 Scholar Kilmarnock
In 1841 in Kilmarnock is:
Henry Sutherland 30 Shoemaker Journ. Born in County
Elizabeth Sutherland 30 Ireland
Robert Sutherland 15 Born in County
Henry Sutherland 13 ditto
Elisabeth Sutherland 6 ditto
John Sutherland 2 ditto
Could not find Henry or Elizabeth in 1851. Mind you Kilmarnock is a big place and there are some enumeration books missing and I was suffering from census neck!!
Ruth Sutherland marries John Richmond on 1/1/1866 in Kilmarnock giving her parents as Henry Sutherland, Shoemaker deceased and Margaret Sutherland m.s. Sneddon. (Where the **** did she come from?)
However when she dies in 1877 her widower gives her parents as James Sutherland, Shoemaker deceased and Elizabeth Sutherland m.s. McNair.
John McNair Shoemaker widower dies on 18th July 1856 at East Shaw Street, Kilmarnock aged 85 and his parents, given by a son whose name is illegible, are James McNair, Shoemaker and unknown
OK if you have not died of boredom by now my question is; how likely is it that that Elizabeth McNair or Sutherland is the daughter of that John McNair and Ruth Blades??
Anne
Shoemakers in Kilmarnock.....
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AnneM
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Shoemakers in Kilmarnock.....
Anne
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JustJean
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Hi Anne
Gosh I thought you were writing another story at first! This is a confusing lot and I still don't think I've got my head around it....but I do have some questions...
Have you looked in the 1861 census yet for Henry Sutherland and Elizabeth McNair Sutherland?.....and also to see where Ruth Sutherland was hanging her hat since she didn't marry until 1866. Of course Henry and Elizabeth might both be dead by then since we know that they were both supposedly dead by 1879 and Elizabeth likely dead even before 1855 and even more possible they were both dead before 1851!!
And also....have you looked in 1841 census for John McNair and Ruth Blades McNair and kiddies Ruth, Agnes, Anne, and maybe Elizabeth and John A.?
In trying to place Elizabeth McNair into the family of John McNair and Ruth Blades this is the storyline as I see it......
In 1851 John McNair is a widower and states he was born in Kilmarnock. His daughter Ann is living with him and she is unmarried. She does marry in 1858 to Alexander Aitken and gets her parents names correct.....John McNair/Ruth Blades (altho is written Blands). Also living in his household in a John A. McNair who says he is a visitor...but we're not sure about this. Could he be a son? Not likely based on his place of birth being Ireland and his supposed Dad's being Kilmarnock as well as his supposed sister's being Kilmarnock. And then little Ruth Sutherland b. just after the 1841 census and possibly confused about her real parents. She says she's a granddaughter but what does she mean?...Is she a granddaughter to Old John McNair or young John McNair? Since young John says he's unmarried then it doesn't look likely that he's had any children to make him a granddaddy. So we have to assume that little Ruthie is Old John's kin. So we don't really know just who the Young John is.......but........we suspect that he is a brother to Elizabeth Sutherland!! See in 1841 Elisabeth was kicking around Kilmarnock with hubby Henry and kiddies Robert, Henry, Elisabeth, and John and stating she was born in Ireland. They seem to be about a year apart in age and much later in our story (actually about 1879) when little Robert Sutherland (now 50 yrs+) dies his uncle John McNair gives the information to the registrar. Now let's all go back and look at Old John McNair. He's saying he is 76 in 1851 but it sure looks like he turns up dead in 1856 in Kilmarnock aged 85. He has a son who registers his info but doesn't write well enough for us to read his name. Got to assume that this son gets a little mixed up on birthdays too. Let's hope that he might know for sure his grandfather's name was James. If we assume the informant son was the same Young John McNair that was in his household in 1851 then is looks like Young John stuck around Kilmarnock and found a wife. In 1881 he's living there with Margaret and in 1886 he dies and his widow Margaret reports his parents as having been John McNair and Ruth Blades. If this is accurate then it sure looks like Elisabeth fits in the same family. Can't prove it yet....but it sure looks that way.
Do you think Old John McNair might have been married more than once? Looks to be a big gap between Elizabeth and John A. (abt 1810/1811) and Ruth (1817), Agnes (1822) and Anne (1825). Do you know anything about Ruth Blades....where was she from?....could she have been Irish?....might they have started out in Ireland and then moved to Kilmarnock and kept having babies?
As for Margaret Sneddon.....not a clue! (maybe an ancestor on the Sutherland tree?) or maybe little Ruthie had a vivid imagination?
Sure would be nice to have those early census indexes......
Best wishes
Jean
Gosh I thought you were writing another story at first! This is a confusing lot and I still don't think I've got my head around it....but I do have some questions...
Have you looked in the 1861 census yet for Henry Sutherland and Elizabeth McNair Sutherland?.....and also to see where Ruth Sutherland was hanging her hat since she didn't marry until 1866. Of course Henry and Elizabeth might both be dead by then since we know that they were both supposedly dead by 1879 and Elizabeth likely dead even before 1855 and even more possible they were both dead before 1851!!
And also....have you looked in 1841 census for John McNair and Ruth Blades McNair and kiddies Ruth, Agnes, Anne, and maybe Elizabeth and John A.?
In trying to place Elizabeth McNair into the family of John McNair and Ruth Blades this is the storyline as I see it......
In 1851 John McNair is a widower and states he was born in Kilmarnock. His daughter Ann is living with him and she is unmarried. She does marry in 1858 to Alexander Aitken and gets her parents names correct.....John McNair/Ruth Blades (altho is written Blands). Also living in his household in a John A. McNair who says he is a visitor...but we're not sure about this. Could he be a son? Not likely based on his place of birth being Ireland and his supposed Dad's being Kilmarnock as well as his supposed sister's being Kilmarnock. And then little Ruth Sutherland b. just after the 1841 census and possibly confused about her real parents. She says she's a granddaughter but what does she mean?...Is she a granddaughter to Old John McNair or young John McNair? Since young John says he's unmarried then it doesn't look likely that he's had any children to make him a granddaddy. So we have to assume that little Ruthie is Old John's kin. So we don't really know just who the Young John is.......but........we suspect that he is a brother to Elizabeth Sutherland!! See in 1841 Elisabeth was kicking around Kilmarnock with hubby Henry and kiddies Robert, Henry, Elisabeth, and John and stating she was born in Ireland. They seem to be about a year apart in age and much later in our story (actually about 1879) when little Robert Sutherland (now 50 yrs+) dies his uncle John McNair gives the information to the registrar. Now let's all go back and look at Old John McNair. He's saying he is 76 in 1851 but it sure looks like he turns up dead in 1856 in Kilmarnock aged 85. He has a son who registers his info but doesn't write well enough for us to read his name. Got to assume that this son gets a little mixed up on birthdays too. Let's hope that he might know for sure his grandfather's name was James. If we assume the informant son was the same Young John McNair that was in his household in 1851 then is looks like Young John stuck around Kilmarnock and found a wife. In 1881 he's living there with Margaret and in 1886 he dies and his widow Margaret reports his parents as having been John McNair and Ruth Blades. If this is accurate then it sure looks like Elisabeth fits in the same family. Can't prove it yet....but it sure looks that way.
Do you think Old John McNair might have been married more than once? Looks to be a big gap between Elizabeth and John A. (abt 1810/1811) and Ruth (1817), Agnes (1822) and Anne (1825). Do you know anything about Ruth Blades....where was she from?....could she have been Irish?....might they have started out in Ireland and then moved to Kilmarnock and kept having babies?
As for Margaret Sneddon.....not a clue! (maybe an ancestor on the Sutherland tree?) or maybe little Ruthie had a vivid imagination?
Sure would be nice to have those early census indexes......
Best wishes
Jean
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AnneM
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hi Jean and sorry for the confusing family.
I did not search the census for Kilmarnock for 1861 largely because I ran out of time and had very sore shoulders and neck by that stage not to mention the start of the cold which laid me low last week.
As you can see the ages are all over the place.
I have nothing on Ruth Blades except her name which I believe to be English rather than Irish. This of course does not mean that she was not Irish. So far I've not managed to find any trace of her anywhere.
I can't find deaths for Henry or Elisabeth despite looking very carefully and am fairly sure they are both dead by 1855. Certainly Eliabeth is nowhere to be seen.
Another resource I did not have a chance to check is the OPRs for Kilmarnock but my experience of OPRs from Ayrshire so far is that they are often scrappy with not a lot of information in them.
I wondered if John and Ruth had perhaps more children in Ireland and then came (back) to Kilmarnock where the younger girls were born. The presence of an Ann of the right age in the 1851 census suggests that that is the right John McNair as well as a grandchild with the name Sutherland.
Now writing too much again.
Thanks for looking at this.
Anne
I did not search the census for Kilmarnock for 1861 largely because I ran out of time and had very sore shoulders and neck by that stage not to mention the start of the cold which laid me low last week.
As you can see the ages are all over the place.
I have nothing on Ruth Blades except her name which I believe to be English rather than Irish. This of course does not mean that she was not Irish. So far I've not managed to find any trace of her anywhere.
I can't find deaths for Henry or Elisabeth despite looking very carefully and am fairly sure they are both dead by 1855. Certainly Eliabeth is nowhere to be seen.
Another resource I did not have a chance to check is the OPRs for Kilmarnock but my experience of OPRs from Ayrshire so far is that they are often scrappy with not a lot of information in them.
I wondered if John and Ruth had perhaps more children in Ireland and then came (back) to Kilmarnock where the younger girls were born. The presence of an Ann of the right age in the 1851 census suggests that that is the right John McNair as well as a grandchild with the name Sutherland.
Now writing too much again.
Thanks for looking at this.
Anne
Anne
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Jack
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Hi Anne & Jean,
--
1841 cens 597 Ed 19 p 13 (Kilmarnock)
Saint Marnock St.
John McNAIR, 65, shoemaker, b AYR
Ruth McNAIR, 60, --------- b England
Agnes McNAIR, 15, ------ b AYR
Anna McNAIR, 13, ------- b AYR
--
There's this William McNAIR, also a shoemaker - suppose no harm in knowing of him.
There are big differences in birthplaces if it's the same family - but looks like it.
1851 cens 597 (514) Ed 16 p 14 (Kilmarnock)
Murrays Land, Back Lane.
William McNAIR, head, marr, 45, shoemaker, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Janet McNAIR, wife, 45, flowerer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Janet McNAIR, daur, u/m 20, flowerer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Margaret McNAIR, daur, u/m 17, bonnet knitter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Agnes McNAIR, daur, 12, bonnet knitter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Mary McNAIR, daur, 10, bonnet knitter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
William McNAIR, son, 4, ------- b Kilmarnock, AYR
Thomas McNAIR, son, 1, ----- b Kilmarnock, AYR
&
1861 cens 597 Ed 6 p 21 (Kilmarnock)
4 Clarks Lane.
Wm. McNAIR, head, marr, 55, shoemaker, b Ireland
Jean McNAIR, wife, 53, -------- b Aberdeen, ABD (Jean is blind)
Margt. McNAIR, daur, u/m 26, bonnet maker, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Mary McNAIR, daur, u/m 21, bonnet maker, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Wm. McNAIR, gr-son, 5, scholar, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Christina FULTON, boarder, u/m 23, flowerer, b Tarbolton, AYR
Margt. McNAIR, gr-daur, 1, --------- b Kilmarnock, AYR
=====
Can't see Henry SUTHERLAND & Elizabeth in 1851,
but possibles for children Robert, Henry, Elisabeth (Eliza), & John.
1851 cens 597 (513) Ed 7 pp 6-7 (Kilmarnock)
Millars Land, East George St.
// Mary FLOOD, head, marr, 26, labourer's wife, b Ireland
Patrick FLOOD, son, 7, scholar, b Ireland
John FLOOD, son, 4, ------ b Ireland
Terry? FLOOD, son, 2, ------ b Dalmellington, AYR
ROBERT SUTHERLAND, lodger, marr, 24, general porter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Margaret SUTHERLAND, lodger, marr, 23, ditto's wife, b Irvine, AYR
Mary ROBERTSON, visitor, u/m 18, hand sewer, b Irvine, AYR
JOHN SUTHERLAND, visitor, 11, errand boy, b Kilmarnock, AYR
// Catherine McCURK, head, u/m 69, pauper, formerly servant, b Ireland
// Margaret SUTHERLAND, head, widow, 45, tambourer, pauper, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Margaret SUTHERLAND, daur, u/m 22, hand sewer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Mary SUTHERLAND, daur, 10, boot closer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Jane SUTHERLAND, daur, 8, scholar, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Andrew SUTHERLAND, son, 5, ----- b Kilmarnock, AYR
Martha SUTHERLAND, gr-daur, 6mos, --- b Kilmarnock, AYR
Elisabeth HANNY, visitor, marr, 21, hand sewer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Elisabeth HANNY, visitor, under a month, --- b Kilmarnock, AYR
--
1851 cens 597 (513) Ed 7 p 21 (Kilmarnock)
Kays Land, Fore St.
With Robert HARRISON 38 b Ireland, wife Catherine 36 b Galloway & 4 children.
HENRY SUTHERLAND, lodger, marr [sic], 22, porter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
--
1851 cens 597 (514) Ed 16 p 18 (Kilmarnock)
Scotts Land, Braefoot.
With Matthew KIEFF? 32 b Ireland, wife Catherine 26 b Coylton & 3 children.
ELIZA SUTHERLAND, visitor, 15, bonnet maker, b Kilmarnock, AYR
====
1861 cens 597 Ed 11 p 18 (Kilmarnock)
31 Strand St.
Robert SUTHERLAND, head, marr, 33, stable man, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Margaret SUTHERLAND, wife, 31, -------- b Irvine, AYR
Mary SUTHERLAND, daur, 7, scholar, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Robert SUTHERLAND, son, 5, ------- b Kilmarnock, AYR
George SUTHERLAND, son, 2, ------ b Kilmarnock, AYR
--
1861 cens 597 Ed 23 p 17 (Kilmarnock)
Wards House, Dundonald Rd.
With John DYKE & wife Ann & 6 children.
RUTH SUTHERLAND, servant, u/m 19, domestic servant, b Kilmarnock, AYR
--
1861 cens 597 Ed 12 p 27 (Kilmarnock)
2 College Wynd.
Margaret SUTHERLAND, head, widow, 57, yarn winder, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Andrew SUTHERLAND, son, 14, asst engine keeper, b Kilmarnock, AYR
[don't know where Margaret fits in (Robert aunt?) - she was at the same address as him in 1851]
--
Jack
--
1841 cens 597 Ed 19 p 13 (Kilmarnock)
Saint Marnock St.
John McNAIR, 65, shoemaker, b AYR
Ruth McNAIR, 60, --------- b England
Agnes McNAIR, 15, ------ b AYR
Anna McNAIR, 13, ------- b AYR
--
There's this William McNAIR, also a shoemaker - suppose no harm in knowing of him.
There are big differences in birthplaces if it's the same family - but looks like it.
1851 cens 597 (514) Ed 16 p 14 (Kilmarnock)
Murrays Land, Back Lane.
William McNAIR, head, marr, 45, shoemaker, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Janet McNAIR, wife, 45, flowerer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Janet McNAIR, daur, u/m 20, flowerer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Margaret McNAIR, daur, u/m 17, bonnet knitter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Agnes McNAIR, daur, 12, bonnet knitter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Mary McNAIR, daur, 10, bonnet knitter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
William McNAIR, son, 4, ------- b Kilmarnock, AYR
Thomas McNAIR, son, 1, ----- b Kilmarnock, AYR
&
1861 cens 597 Ed 6 p 21 (Kilmarnock)
4 Clarks Lane.
Wm. McNAIR, head, marr, 55, shoemaker, b Ireland
Jean McNAIR, wife, 53, -------- b Aberdeen, ABD (Jean is blind)
Margt. McNAIR, daur, u/m 26, bonnet maker, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Mary McNAIR, daur, u/m 21, bonnet maker, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Wm. McNAIR, gr-son, 5, scholar, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Christina FULTON, boarder, u/m 23, flowerer, b Tarbolton, AYR
Margt. McNAIR, gr-daur, 1, --------- b Kilmarnock, AYR
=====
Can't see Henry SUTHERLAND & Elizabeth in 1851,
but possibles for children Robert, Henry, Elisabeth (Eliza), & John.
1851 cens 597 (513) Ed 7 pp 6-7 (Kilmarnock)
Millars Land, East George St.
// Mary FLOOD, head, marr, 26, labourer's wife, b Ireland
Patrick FLOOD, son, 7, scholar, b Ireland
John FLOOD, son, 4, ------ b Ireland
Terry? FLOOD, son, 2, ------ b Dalmellington, AYR
ROBERT SUTHERLAND, lodger, marr, 24, general porter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Margaret SUTHERLAND, lodger, marr, 23, ditto's wife, b Irvine, AYR
Mary ROBERTSON, visitor, u/m 18, hand sewer, b Irvine, AYR
JOHN SUTHERLAND, visitor, 11, errand boy, b Kilmarnock, AYR
// Catherine McCURK, head, u/m 69, pauper, formerly servant, b Ireland
// Margaret SUTHERLAND, head, widow, 45, tambourer, pauper, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Margaret SUTHERLAND, daur, u/m 22, hand sewer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Mary SUTHERLAND, daur, 10, boot closer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Jane SUTHERLAND, daur, 8, scholar, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Andrew SUTHERLAND, son, 5, ----- b Kilmarnock, AYR
Martha SUTHERLAND, gr-daur, 6mos, --- b Kilmarnock, AYR
Elisabeth HANNY, visitor, marr, 21, hand sewer, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Elisabeth HANNY, visitor, under a month, --- b Kilmarnock, AYR
--
1851 cens 597 (513) Ed 7 p 21 (Kilmarnock)
Kays Land, Fore St.
With Robert HARRISON 38 b Ireland, wife Catherine 36 b Galloway & 4 children.
HENRY SUTHERLAND, lodger, marr [sic], 22, porter, b Kilmarnock, AYR
--
1851 cens 597 (514) Ed 16 p 18 (Kilmarnock)
Scotts Land, Braefoot.
With Matthew KIEFF? 32 b Ireland, wife Catherine 26 b Coylton & 3 children.
ELIZA SUTHERLAND, visitor, 15, bonnet maker, b Kilmarnock, AYR
====
1861 cens 597 Ed 11 p 18 (Kilmarnock)
31 Strand St.
Robert SUTHERLAND, head, marr, 33, stable man, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Margaret SUTHERLAND, wife, 31, -------- b Irvine, AYR
Mary SUTHERLAND, daur, 7, scholar, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Robert SUTHERLAND, son, 5, ------- b Kilmarnock, AYR
George SUTHERLAND, son, 2, ------ b Kilmarnock, AYR
--
1861 cens 597 Ed 23 p 17 (Kilmarnock)
Wards House, Dundonald Rd.
With John DYKE & wife Ann & 6 children.
RUTH SUTHERLAND, servant, u/m 19, domestic servant, b Kilmarnock, AYR
--
1861 cens 597 Ed 12 p 27 (Kilmarnock)
2 College Wynd.
Margaret SUTHERLAND, head, widow, 57, yarn winder, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Andrew SUTHERLAND, son, 14, asst engine keeper, b Kilmarnock, AYR
[don't know where Margaret fits in (Robert aunt?) - she was at the same address as him in 1851]
--
Jack
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AnneM
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Hi Jack
Thank you so much for all that info. I will have to read mark and inwardly digest it all. I'm really grateful to you for finding John and Ruth in 1841 and now know she was born in England. The rest is great too.
Ta again.
Anne
Thank you so much for all that info. I will have to read mark and inwardly digest it all. I'm really grateful to you for finding John and Ruth in 1841 and now know she was born in England. The rest is great too.
Ta again.
Anne
Anne
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AnneM
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Hi Jack
Now had a chance to look at some of your finds. William McNair was also a son of John McNair and Ruth Blades and the 1871 census confirms a birthplace of Ireland. This to my mind makes it even more likely that Elizabeth, who was also born in Ireland, was the daughter of John and Ruth.
It seems to me clear that the John the Shoemaker living in Kilmarnock in 1851 is the widower of Ruth (see 1841) and he has living with him a grand-daughter called Ruth Sutherland. Elizabeth McNair marries a Henry Sutherland and on Ruth's DC tho not her marriage her mother is given as Elizabeth McNair.
This seems to me to point very clearly to John and Ruth as the parents of Elizabeth McNair so I think I will 'claim' them for my friend.
By the way does anyone else have any memory of shoemakers and cobblers being people who travelled around for their business? I'm sure I have childhood memories of travelling cobblers coming around or am I imagining it to account for these shoemakers marrying people from England and Aberdeen??
By the way Margaret Sutherland was a bit elusive where finding her death was concerned. There is no obvious candidate. However she dies in Kilmarnock in 1864 of consumption and appears as Martha Sutherland (m.s. Dreghorn) widow of Andrew Sutherland. Shoemaker. Andrew died pre 1855 so difficult to tell who his parents were but I would guess he was a brother of Henry, making Margaret/Martha Robert's aunt by marriage.
Anne
Now had a chance to look at some of your finds. William McNair was also a son of John McNair and Ruth Blades and the 1871 census confirms a birthplace of Ireland. This to my mind makes it even more likely that Elizabeth, who was also born in Ireland, was the daughter of John and Ruth.
It seems to me clear that the John the Shoemaker living in Kilmarnock in 1851 is the widower of Ruth (see 1841) and he has living with him a grand-daughter called Ruth Sutherland. Elizabeth McNair marries a Henry Sutherland and on Ruth's DC tho not her marriage her mother is given as Elizabeth McNair.
This seems to me to point very clearly to John and Ruth as the parents of Elizabeth McNair so I think I will 'claim' them for my friend.
By the way does anyone else have any memory of shoemakers and cobblers being people who travelled around for their business? I'm sure I have childhood memories of travelling cobblers coming around or am I imagining it to account for these shoemakers marrying people from England and Aberdeen??
By the way Margaret Sutherland was a bit elusive where finding her death was concerned. There is no obvious candidate. However she dies in Kilmarnock in 1864 of consumption and appears as Martha Sutherland (m.s. Dreghorn) widow of Andrew Sutherland. Shoemaker. Andrew died pre 1855 so difficult to tell who his parents were but I would guess he was a brother of Henry, making Margaret/Martha Robert's aunt by marriage.
Anne
Anne
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AnneM
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OK don't want to specialise in long posts but this is a stupid question and I will however ask it. I was looking on SP for any McNairs born in Kilmarnock and found as well as Ann, Agnes and Ruth as I expected two x Thomas Cuthbert McNairs. Each one of these kids (And all the others on the page) have a number e.g the Thomases are child 6 and child 10, Ruth is child 7 and Agnes and Anne 13 and 14 respectively. It seems to me that these must be the number of children born to that couple but is that right? Given the number it seems to me all too likely that Elizabeth who was born in around 1810 was one of theirs.
A bonus was a John McNair born or bap 7/8/1774 to James McNair and Janet Patrick who is just the right age to be my John from 1851 census.
On the IGI there is also a Ruth Blades born or bap 14 Feb 1781 in Abbey, St Albans, Herts to Cuthbert Blades and Elizabeth. That more or less fits with the age on the 1841 census and two of her sons have Cuthbert for a middle name, not that common in Ayrshire and her oldest daughter that I know of is Elizabeth. I will never know if it is she but seems a reasonable bet.
Anne
A bonus was a John McNair born or bap 7/8/1774 to James McNair and Janet Patrick who is just the right age to be my John from 1851 census.
On the IGI there is also a Ruth Blades born or bap 14 Feb 1781 in Abbey, St Albans, Herts to Cuthbert Blades and Elizabeth. That more or less fits with the age on the 1841 census and two of her sons have Cuthbert for a middle name, not that common in Ayrshire and her oldest daughter that I know of is Elizabeth. I will never know if it is she but seems a reasonable bet.
Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters