Helen Cheyne born Kintore 1886 ** birthday bumped post **

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

Moderator: Global Moderators

Post Reply
AndrewP
Site Admin
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Post by AndrewP » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:08 pm

imlincs wrote:Why haven't my "bold" tags worked?

(I just know the answer to this is going to make me look stupid!)
Hi Ian,

I think Lesley will forgive me for answering this one. In your profile, always allow BB code was set to "no". I have set it to "yes" for you. Bold and the other buttons above the message posting window will all now work for you.

All the best,

AndrewP

SarahND
Site Admin
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:03 am

Hi Ian and all,
On a tip from Annette (Nelmit) I spent some time yesterday looking at yet another Christina-- the one born Methlick in 1865. In 1881 and 1891 her family were living in Tanglan-Muir, Methlick and Tangland Cottages, Methlick. Tanglandford is now postcode AB41 7EN called Tanglandford, Methlick, Ellon. There is also Tangland House and Tangland Bridge. I don't find mention of Tangland Muir or cottages, but they were presumably around the same place. This area is VERY close to Haddo House. Certainly, in terms of proximity, the Christina Simpson born Methlick seems the best fit. She is a reasonable age, also! (And she has a sister Margaret/Maggie...)

It is probably another wild goose chase, as you shall see, but in case she ever becomes important, at least in the process of elimination, I'll give you the details. Here she is in her first census:

1871
Cottage Sessnie, Methlick, Aberdeenshire
James Simpson, 35, Head, born Old Deer, Aberdeenshire, Ag Lab
Elizabeth Simpson, 32, Wife, born Ellon, Aberdeenshire
Margaret Simpson, 8, Daughter, born Ellon, Aberdeenshire, Scholar
Elizabeth Simpson, 7, Daughter, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, Scholar
Christina Simpson, 5, Daughter, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire
Francis Simpson, 3, Son, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire
Jane Simpson, 1, Daughter, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire

In 1881 she is a servant in Ellon:

1881
Gallowhill, Ellon, Aberdeenshire
James Davidson, 66, Head, born Cairnie, Banffshire, Farmer of 125 Acres Arable - Employing 2 Men, 1 Girl, 1 Boy
...
Christina Simpson, 16, Servant, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, General Servant

Sister Maggie is also a servant in Ellon:

1881
Ardlethan, Ellon, Aberdeenshire
Thomas Garland, 28, Head, born Ellon, Aberdeenshire, Farm of 410 Acres Arable Employing 10 Men & 3 Girls
...
Maggie Simpson, 19, Servant, born Ellon, Aberdeenshire, Housemaid Domestic Serv

And here is the rest of the family at Tanglan-Muir:

1881
Tanglan-Muir, Methlick, Aberdeenshire
Elizabeth Simpson, 42, Head, born Ellon, Aberdeenshire, General Servant
Francis Simpson, 13, Son, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, Unemployed
Jane Simpson, 11, Daughter, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, Scholar
Helen Simpson, 10, Daughter, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, Scholar
James Simpson, 7, Son, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, Scholar
Mary Simpson, 6, Daughter, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, Scholar


Now, here comes the problem. As AnneM noted, this Christina was married in 1885... I used some of my Freebee Scotland's People credits to look up the marriage. Yes, it was the same Christina. She married Andrew Cooper, the son of John Cooper and Isabella Forsyth, born in Kennethmont. They were married on 9 Jun 1885 at Tangland, Methlick. His usual residence was Mill of Mennie(?), Belhelvie and hers was Kincraig, Foveran.

By 1891 they have, interestingly, gone to Battersea, London (!) and Andrew has become a baker. There is a daughter Mary, age 8 (born well before the marriage) and a daughter Maggie, age 5. It is looking completely impossible that Christina could be the mother of Helen, born the same year as Maggie :( But, for the fun of it, let me continue with this family because they are interesting :lol:

Here is mother Elizabeth in 1891, with what looks like a whole troupe of possibly illegitimate grandchildren :shock:

1891
Tangland Cottages, Methlick, Aberdeenshire
Elizabeth Simpson, 52, Head, born Ellon, Aberdeenshire, Washerwoman & R
Mary Simpson, 16, Daur, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, Serv (Domestic)
Lizzie M Watson, 11, Grd Daur, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire, Scholar
Rose Jane Cooper, 8, Grd Daur, born Tarves, Aberdeenshire, Scholar
Fanny S Simpson, 3, Grd Daur, born Methlick, Aberdeenshire

Who are all these children?

Rose Jane Cooper shows up in 1901 as Rose J Simpson. She is a Servant in the Hayward household in Aberdeen

Fanny shows up in 1901 as Fanny Simpson. She is a Niece in the Crighton household in Banchory Devenick.
Grandma Elizabeth is also in the household. Looks like Christina's sister Mary married Andrew Crighton.

Lizzie M Watson seems to have kept her father's name, unlike the others. At least I think this is she in 1901, a cook in Edinburgh, mis-transcribed as "Coatson" a cook in the household of an Episcopalian priest.

1901
Reginald j S Mitchell-Innes, 52, Head, born Edinburgh, Edinburghshire, Episcopalian Priest (sub Dean)
Margaret Sinclair, 52, Serv, born Latheron, Caithness, Housekeeper
Elizabeth M Coatson, 21, Serv, born Methlic, Aberdeenshire, Cook Domestic
Elizabeth M Forbes, 19, Serv, born Resolis, Rossshire, Tablemaid Domestic

Christina and family have returned from England and are also in Edinburgh, although all of them (at least according to the transcription) have down that they were born in Kennethmont, as was Andrew. Interestingly, Mary is now a step daughter, Mary Simpson...

1901
Andrew Cooper, 36, Head, born Kennethmont, Aberdeenshire, Barman
Christina Cooper, 35, Wife, born Kennethmont, Aberdeenshire
Maggie Cooper, 15, Daughter, born Kennethmont, Aberdeenshire, Shop Girl
Mary Simpson, 18, Stepdaughter, born Kennethmont, Aberdeenshire, Factory
Williamina Simpson, 6, Relative, born Kennethmont, Aberdeenshire, Scholar

I do wish the 1911 census were out, so we could figure out who Mary Simpson's father is and who Williamina is... Since in 1891 the birthplace for Mary is only given as "Scotland" and in 1901 they are all wrongly transcribed as having been born in Kennethmont... it is hard to pin down which of the many Mary Simpsons born in Aberdeenshire is the one we want. :roll: Well, the one I want anyway... it is likely that the rest of you are rolling your eyes and wishing I would bring this post to a close :lol:

So, that's it for now!
Regards,
Sarah

nelmit
Posts: 3981
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:57 pm

SarahND wrote:Hi Ian and all,
By 1891 they have, interestingly, gone to Battersea, London (!) and Andrew has become a baker. There is a daughter Mary, age 8 (born well before the marriage) and a daughter Maggie, age 5. It is looking completely impossible that Christina could be the mother of Helen, born the same year as Maggie :( But, for the fun of it, let me continue with this family because they are interesting :lol:

So, that's it for now!
Regards,
Sarah
Foiled again!!! :cry:

Ian,

As you know, in 1891 Helen is a boarder with the Ramsay family. The Ramsay family lived next to the poorhouse at Kintore.

Have you tried Aberdeen archives to see if they have existing poorhouse records for that time. It may have been that Helen was placed there then boarded out to the Ramsays.

Regards,
Annette

AnneM
Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:58 pm

Hi again

I was trying to work out in my head what it is we actually definitely know here:

Ian's Granny was Helen ka Nellie Cheyne.
She married in London in 1915 giving her father as James Cheyne, Police Sergeant.
Her birthday was 26th June.
She stated that she came from Rothienorman.
She had an Aunt Maggie in Aberdeen. Ian states that Aunt Maggie was a Mrs Simpson, which he presumably knows from good data.

Unfortunately Simpson is a common name up here and Maggie is even commoner and asking someone from Aberdeenshire if they have relatives in Aberdeen is a bit like asking a West Coast Scot if they have relatives in Canada so I'm not sure Aunt Maggie takes us very far.

Easter Logie Aulton is in Rothienorman according to Aberdeen and North East Marts and they ought to know. Therefore it is likely that the Nellie Cheyne working in Easter Logie Aulton is the right Helen Cheyne and she was born in Kintore in 1886. Corroboration for that is that her birthday is 26th June . The birthday alone would not do it really as I alone have a husband, sister in law and close friend all with that birthday but added to the Rothienorman connection I think that's proved to satisfaction.

Helen/Nellie's parents who both sign the BC are Christina Simpson, Domestic Servant and James Cheyne also a servant of Wells of Fyvie, which like Rothienorman is in the Turriff area and is pretty near Auchterless and Rothienorman and also Methlick. There is a Cottown near there but it is not the same to my knowledge as Cottown at Kintore. Kintore is on the other side of Inverurie.

There are various Christina Simpsons available to be the mother of Nellie Cheyne and apart from the one born in Methlick who was my first best hope but inconsiderately rules herself out all have something in their favour and against. There is your 14 year old and either of the 2 Christinas from Auchterless, which is the birthplace of Margaret Simpson/Ramsay who is Nellie's foster mother. There is even a Christina Simpson, born 1857 in Aberdeen, in Glasgow in 1881 but she is a Machinist not a servant.

The James is also a puzzle and there are one or two available to be him but only the one who goes to Glasgow is a police person. I don't suppose he has a father who is available to be Nellie's Dad?? That would be a cover up and a half.

I'm stumped as to how we can get further on this.

Anne

PS If any kind soul was going to NAS it would be a great kindness to look in the Kirk Session Records for the relevant parishes though 1886 is a bit late to find anything but you never know.
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

nelmit
Posts: 3981
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:20 pm

Next contender (or have we had this one) -

CHRISTINA SIMPSON Pedigree
Female

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM SIMPSON Family
Mother: CHRISTINA CHAPMAN

I can't find this family in 1861 but here is William with new wife (Christina senior died in 1869) in 1881 - note the address.

Dwelling: Cottown
Census Place: Kintore, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203459 GRO Ref Volume 213 EnumDist 1 Page 15
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William SIMPSON M 48 M Forgue, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Sawmiller
Eliza SIMPSON M 32 F Strichan, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Wife
George SIMPSON 13 M Forgue, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Alexander SIMPSON 5 M Woodside, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Son
Margaret SIMPSON 3 F Woodside, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Hellen SIMPSON 1 F Woodside, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Dau


In 1871 William is living with George and Robert but no girls. Daughter Jane died young but I can't find anything for Christina or Mary.

I did find a Christina Simpson born 1861 at Forgue in 1891. She is living at Culsamond with daughter Jane.

Regards,
Annette

AnneM
Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:53 pm

And there as if by magic is Aunt Maggie!! Miss rather than Mrs Simpson.

Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

AnneM
Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:17 pm

Christina is there in Forgue with her family in 1861 indexed in Ancestry as Sempson! Her parents are William a meal milller aged 28 and Christina aged 22.

In 1871 Christina, this time as Christian, is with the family of Robert Chapman in Turriff and given as sister's daughter.

In 1881 she is in Turriff again this time as a servant.

She has just become my new favourite of all. Right place, right time and parents who are in Cottown of Kintore. What more could anyone ask really.

Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

SarahND
Site Admin
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:33 pm

AnneM wrote: She has just become my new favourite of all. Right place, right time and parents who are in Cottown of Kintore. What more could anyone ask really.
What more, indeed! :lol:
This is exciting! Much as I feel like dashing off after this Christina, my 90 year old mother-in-law is due to arrive for a visit in about half an hour... so I leave it in your capable hands, ladies!

:-$ Maybe if she goes to bed early tonight... I can at least have a look at what you've come up with!

Cheers and tallyho!

Sarah

AnneM
Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:54 pm

This Christina married John McCurragh in Marnoch which was then in Banffshire in 1894. And she dies aged 76 in 1936 in Kincardine O'Neill having been living in Glassel which is near Banchory. This one ticks the boxes for me.

Anne

BTW Old father William dies at a goodly age in Aberdeen and his son the informant is in Aberdeen also. So again you have an Aberdeen connection.

PPS This one has convinced me and I'm only peeved I did not find her. Have we convinced you yet? You're never going to be 100% sure which is the right Christina because there is virtually no way of knowing unless you find documents referring to her brothers and sisters as McCurragh. There is one with a really good first name, Thirza.
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

imlincs
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:42 pm

Post by imlincs » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:34 pm

Thank you Andrew

I look forward, occasionally, to being a little bolder now.

Ian
+++

Post Reply