about Murdo McLeod & Catherine McLean married 1899 Inver

[george]

Hi everyone!

I'm a beginner in the genealogy research and a new member of this forum. I´ll appreciate so much any help.

I don´t know how follow my searching, because all my questions in Scotlandspeople are not positives. I don´t found any births record of Murdo (1) or Catherine (3), marriage record of Norman & Catherine (2) or deaths records. Anyone could help me.

I only know:

(from Marriage Record from Scotlandspeople)
1. Murdo (or Murdoch in accordance with (5)), my GGParents, was son of Norman McLeod and Catherine MacKay
2. Catherine, my GGParents, was daughter of Duncan McLean and Ann MacLean.
2. Murdo Mc Leod born in ~1862 in Scotland
3. Catherine McLean born in ~1860-61 in Scotland
4. Murdo & Catherine married 2 Jun 1899 in Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland.

(from Deaths record)
5. Catherine Macleod died in 1926 with 66 yo in Urquhart, Inverness.

Thank you very much for read my post.
George

[JustJean]

Hi George and Welcome!

You've got a toughie I wonder if you know a few more details about Murdo & Catherine.....like their places of birth from the 1901 census? or the occupation of Murdo on his marriage record?.....or the occupation of Murdo's father Norman? I'm sure we can sort something out with a few more hints to work with!

Best wishes
Jean

[AndrewP]

Hi George,

From the online IGI, these look like the most likely contenders for the people that you are looking for.

• DUNCAN MACLEAN - ANN MCLEAN
  Marriage: 30 DEC 1851 Kiltarlity, Inverness, Scotland
  Marriage: 30 DEC 1851 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland (LDS)
  
  MC LEAN - Birth: 27 JUN 1855 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland
  DUNCAN MAC LEAN - Birth: 27 JUN 1855 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland (LDS)
  DUNCAN MAC LEAN - Death: 27 JUN 1855 (LDS)
  BARBARA MAC LEAN - Birth: 17 JUL 1856 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland (LDS)
  CATHERINE MAC LEAN - Birth: 01 MAY 1858 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland (LDS)
  WILLIAM MAC LEAN - Birth: 17 JUL 1862 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland (LDS)

--------------------------------------

• NORMAN MAC LEOD - CATHERINE MCKAY
  Marriage: 14 NOV 1853 Lochs, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland (LDS)
  
  JOHN MAC LEOD - Birth: 22 JUN 1857 Lochs, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland (LDS)
  EUPHEMIA MAC LEOD - Birth: 06 JAN 1860 Carloway, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland (LDS)
  MARY MC LEOD - Birth: 07 JUL 1862 Carloway, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland
  MARY MAC LEOD - Birth: 16 JUL 1862 Carloway, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland (LDS)
  CATHREN MC LEOD - Birth: 10 MAR 1865 Carloway, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland
  MARGRET MC LEOD - Birth: 21 DEC 1867 Carloway, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland
  MURDO MCLEOD - Birth: 15 JUN 1870 Carloway, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

Sadly most of these IGI entries are LDS submissions (colored red), without any sign of equivalent entries extracted from the civil records (coloured blue), so I would treat them with caution until you find any more substantial evidence. You're going to need census information, particularly 1861 to try and sort these folk out. There is hope that the 1861 census will come online later this year.

If it helps any, Lochs and Carloway are both on the Isle of Lewis, and Urquhart is on the mainland by the west coast of Loch Ness.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[DavidWW]

Hi George

Andrew has got the correct marriages, but the CATHERINE MAC LEAN - Birth: 01 MAY 1858 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland also exists as a birth register entry. However, there's another problem.....

These records for the births of Murdo and Catherine would make them 29 and 42 at the 1899 marriage, not the declared 37 and 38......... not unusual for a lady to massage her age by a few years, but would a man have added 12 years to his age ??, - it certainly made him appear of like age to his bride !!

Apparantly so , as the 1901 census entry for Murdo (30) and Katie (40) also has a son Norman, and his birth register entry links back to their 02Jun1899 marriage in the parish of Urquhart ............. ... so that the Murdo and Catherine in those records found by Andrew are your ancestors.

Following back through the various records will give you the death register entries for the parents of Murdo, - Norman McLEOD and Catharine MACKAY, - and Scottish records give you the names of the parents.

Catherine's parents, Duncan McLEAN and Ann McLEAN are more of a problem, - I think that I have Ann's death down to 1 of 2 records, but can't find Duncan's. McLEAN and McLEOD in this area as surnames can take some sorting out

On the other hand Duncan and Ann had an unnamed child in 1855, so, with the extra info that you get in that one year, you get their ages and places of birth. As this male child only survived a few minutes, there's also an 1855 death register entry, but all it provides as the extra 1855 info is the place of burial

Davie

[george]

Thanks a lot Davie, Andrew and Jean!

I was stranded and your posts motivate me a lot.

At first...

(from Marrige records)
1. 1989 Marriages in the District of Urquhart in the County of Inverness
2. 1989, 2nd June at the Free Church of Glenurquhart.
3. Murdo McLeod, P???ghman, Bachelor
4. Age 37
5. Usual Residence: Drumchme Parish of Urquhart, Inverness shire
6. Parents: Norman McLeod, Crofter and Catherine McLeod, m.s. MacKay (deceased)
7.Catherine McLean, Domestic Servant, spinster
8. Age 38
9. Usual Residence: Balnagrantach Parish of Urquhart, Inverness shire
10. Parents: Duncan McLean, Labourer General and Ann McLean, m.s. Mc Lean

(from Death records)
1926 Deaths in the District of Urquhart in the County of Inverness
1. Catherine MacLeod, Married to Murdoch MacLeod, Estate Labourer
2. 1926, September 25th, 11:30PM, Polmaily Parish ?, Urquhart
3. Female
4. Age: 66 years
5. Parents: Duncan MacLean, ???? Servant, Deceased, Annie MacLean, m.s. MacLean, Deceased
6. Cause of Death
7. Informant: Norman MacLeod, Son

Each ? replaced a character that I don´t understood.

Marriage: 30 DEC 1851 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland (LDS) It´s good Thanks Andrew.

But looking for Catherine birth record I found this:

(from Birth record)
1860 Births in the Parish of Urquhart in the County of Inverness
1. Mac Lean, Margaret ?, Altered to Catherine, ???? 29th, 1860
2. 1860, December, Sixth, 5h ??, Devoch Farm
3. F
4. Duncan MacLean, Farm Manager
5. ??a??lla MacLean, Maiden Name (McLennan)

This woman will be 38 yo in 1899 for her marriage with my ggparent. But the name of the mother is not Ann. Reading and comparing may be Isabella.

I´ll appreciate your opinions about her.

With Murdo other world. My credit expired in scotlandspeople for now and I used the free search using Murdoch (following the Catherine´s Death Record) and found

1. Murdoch MacLeod, 1862, Duirinish, Inverness
2. Murdoch MacLeod, 1862, Raasay, Inverness

These men will be 37 in 1899. But is not relevant because in accordance with David in the 1901 census are Murdo (30) and Katie (40) and a son, Norman. But in the others records the name is Catherine no Katherine. Cathie.
It´s so confusing.
Do you could help me with this? C or K is irrelevant?

Thank you very much again for your time

Best regards,
George

[DavidWW]

Thanks a lot Davie, Andrew and Jean!

I was stranded and your posts motivate me a lot.

At first...

(from Marrige records)
1. 1989 Marriages in the District of Urquhart in the County of Inverness
2. 1989, 2nd June at the Free Church of Glenurquhart.
3. Murdo McLeod, P???ghman, Bachelor

Ploughman

4. Age 37
5. Usual Residence: Drumchme Parish of Urquhart, Inverness shire
6. Parents: Norman McLeod, Crofter and Catherine McLeod, m.s. MacKay (deceased)
7.Catherine McLean, Domestic Servant, spinster
8. Age 38
9. Usual Residence: Balnagrantach Parish of Urquhart, Inverness shire
10. Parents: Duncan McLean, Labourer General and Ann McLean, m.s. Mc Lean

(from Death records)
1926 Deaths in the District of Urquhart in the County of Inverness
1. Catherine MacLeod, Married to Murdoch MacLeod, Estate Labourer
2. 1926, September 25th, 11:30PM, Polmaily Parish ?, Urquhart

Polmaily Parish of Urquhart

3. Female
4. Age: 66 years
5. Parents: Duncan MacLean, ???? Servant, Deceased, Annie MacLean,

Farm Servant

m.s. MacLean, Deceased
6. Cause of Death
7. Informant: Norman MacLeod, Son

Each ? replaced a character that I don´t understood.

Marriage: 30 DEC 1851 Urquhart, Inverness, Scotland (LDS) It´s good Thanks Andrew.

But looking for Catherine birth record I found this:

(from Birth record)
1860 Births in the Parish of Urquhart in the County of Inverness
1. Mac Lean, Margaret ?, Altered to Catherine, ???? 29th, 1860
2. 1860, December, Sixth, 5h ??, Devoch Farm
3. F
4. Duncan MacLean, Farm Manager
5. ??a??lla MacLean, Maiden Name (McLennan)

This woman will be 38 yo in 1899 for her marriage with my ggparent. But the name of the mother is not Ann. Reading and comparing may be Isabella.

Wrong record so no surprise that there's a problem.

See the family info supplied by Andrew, - you are two years out ......

I´ll appreciate your opinions about her.

With Murdo other world. My credit expired in scotlandspeople for now and I used the free search using Murdoch (following the Catherine´s Death Record) and found

1. Murdoch MacLeod, 1862, Duirinish, Inverness
2. Murdoch MacLeod, 1862, Raasay, Inverness

Again, wrong records, - see the info from Andrew, - you're 10 years out !! (and it's Murdo, - not Murdoch)

These men will be 37 in 1899. But is not relevant because in accordance with David in the 1901 census are Murdo (30) and Katie (40) and a son, Norman.

You need to get that census entry, - it's the parish that you would expect, and look up the birth of the son Norman, in order to convince yourself, that the records that Andrew found are the correct records............

And the 1901 census entry will give you the same parish of birth as suggested by the record that Andrew found.

But in the others records the name is Catherine no Katherine. Cathie.
It´s so confusing.
Do you could help me with this? C or K is irrelevant?

No difference.

In records that you have yet to find, you'll come across Anne and Annie for Ann, and the quite unusual Nannie..........

Remember that Catherine took 4 years off her age for the marriage register entry, and Murdo(ch) had added 7 years..................

Davie

[george]

Hi everybody!

I was doing my homework in SP and in another sites.

I follow your recommendations and found a lot!!!!

Thank you for your patience.

In SP I found the Census record of 1901.

1901 Census
Urquhart
Murdo MacLeod, H, Mar., 30, Cattleman, Ross-shire Stornoway
Katie , W, do , 40, , Inverness-shire Urquhart
Norman , Son, , ????, , do do
I don´t understand the age of Norman. If somebody want help me I send tiff.

Next, I found a great page of Urquhart and Glenmoriston and I found all Katie family (MacLean-Campbell connection http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/akeddy/index.html). A really great page!

Well, next Murdo. A new problem rose.
from LDS
Murdo MacLeod born in Carloway, Ross & Cromarty, 15/Jun/1870
from Census 1901
Murdo MacLeod born in Stornoway, Ross & Cromarty, ~1870

I looked for Murdo MacLeod 1870 in both districts, totaling 6 candidates (1 in Carloway and 5 in Stornoway. A lot of money for me now.

Anybody could help me with some recommendation about how proceed or some information or whatever.

Best regards, George

[AndrewP]

Well, next Murdo. A new problem rose.
from LDS
Murdo MacLeod born in Carloway, Ross & Cromarty, 15/Jun/1870
from Census 1901
Murdo MacLeod born in Stornoway, Ross & Cromarty, ~1870

I looked for Murdo MacLeod 1870 in both districts, totaling 6 candidates (1 in Carloway and 5 in Stornoway. A lot of money for me now.

Anybody could help me with some recommendation about how proceed or some information or whatever.

Best regards, George

The LDS site www.familysearch.org shows Murdo MacLeod born to Norman McLeod and Cathrin Mackay as a birth on 15-Jun-1870 in Carloway registration district [spelling as given on LDS site]. The Stornoway and other Isle of Lewis births for Norman M(a)cLeod are to parents of other names. The LDS site is very useful and reliable for births and marriages from 1855 to 1875, where the information is extracted from the birth and marriage certificates (there is also information submitted to the LDS, but this can be difficult to verify). As the LDS index (the IGI) includes the parents' names, you can confirm you have the right one to go searching for on ScotlandsPeople before you commit to spending money.

1901 Census
Urquhart
Murdo MacLeod, H, Mar., 30, Cattleman, Ross-shire Stornoway
Katie , W, do , 40, , Inverness-shire Urquhart
Norman , Son, , ????, , do do
I don´t understand the age of Norman. If somebody want help me I send tiff.

It looks like GROS couldn't make out his age either. They have listed him under the "don't know" age of 131 in their ScotlandsPeople index. Go to the TalkingScot Gallery, and select "upload file" and follow the instructions from there. If it does not work for you, please send me a message either by PM or e-mail and I will help you through it.


All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[george]

Hi Andrew,

I uploaded the page of Census with Norman MacLeod.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-208

I appreciate your attention. Thanks

George

[AndrewP]

Hi George,

The enumerator used coloured pencils when summarising the counts of the males and females on the census. If you see the original census book, then there is no problem, you can see right through the pencil marks and the ages are obvious. But both the microfilming and the digital imaging are black and white processes. So the ages, and the coloured marks all become black and you get difficult to read census reports, of which yours is a prime example.

It may be worth filling in a contact form on ScotlandsPeople saying that the ages are unreadable. They should send out a photocopy - a copy made from the book, rather than from the microfilm or the digital image. I have such a photocopy in front of me. Although the photocopy is black and white, the important difference being, the photocopy allows for many shades of grey. Therefore the ages are still visible, despite being scored through.

If I was offering my best guess, I would say that The parents are aged 30 and 40, and young Norman is 14 days old. If so, you should find a birth in mid-March 1901 for him in Urquhart, Inverness-shire.

20 minutes later....
Now I'm not so sure, the only 1901 Inverness-shire birth for a Norman M(a)cLeod is in Harris. A far more likely one has to be the 1899 birth in Urquhart. If that is the right one, then what does the census say?

All the best,

Andrew Paterson.