Helen Wilson.....

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:59 pm

Hello everyone - this is my first post apart from saying where I heard about the site, so please be gentle with me. Just in the door and looking for help already - I apologise in advance ...

The person I'm looking for is Helen Wilson, married to George Bateman (b.1882) in 1905 at Dunipace. The marr cert gives Helen's parents as John Wilson (Iron Dresser) and Helen Wilson ms Wilson (both dec'd by 1905). Helen's death cert gives the same info.

I've not been able to confirm Helen's birth cert, because I can find no Helen born to John & Helen, or any trace of her parents marriage. I've a lot of info about John Wilson married to a Catherine Wilson, plus their family including a Helen of the right age (John's occupation also fits), but no John W to Helen W in Stirlingshire. (There are 2 in Aberdeen, and I admit I've no way of knowing for sure they were born/married in Stirlingshire, but even getting the Aberdeen details would leave me no wiser).

Other clues that the alleged Helen was actually Catherine - the eldest daughter of Helen and George Bateman was Kate and the 2nd eldest son was John (ie after their maternal grandparents?). Kate's siblings also have the names of other children born to Wm & Catherine (ie named after their aunts/uncles).

How will I ever know I've got the right ancester (sadly no-one around to ask!)

If you've not all died from boredom, I'd appreciate any ideas.

Thank you, and thanks for a great site - really glad I've found it.

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:41 am

Hello,

Have you found 'your' Helen Wilson on the 1901 census? that should give her place of birth.

What age was she when she married?

I had a look at the 1881 census on for Denny, Dunipace areas on :
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/members/tom.p ... _index.htm
but couldn't find anybody obvious.
JJ

CatrionaL · Post by **CatrionaL** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:51 pm

Hullo Pinkshoes

Glad to have you with us.

Several of the Helen's on my tree have turned up under "Nellie" or "Ellen" on Census, Mariage or Death certificates. Might be worth a try.

I wish you much enjoyment and succes with your research.

Catriona

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:30 pm

Thank you both for your replies. Wilma I've not nailed Helen on 1901 census for sure as she didn't marry till 1905. I do have a Helen Wilson born to John & Catherine though - which may well be her.

Good suggestion re Nell, Nellie, Ellen Catriona. Ellen is a distinct possibility as there are other Ellens further down the tree. It did pop into my mind (probably when I was asleep), but forgot to chase it up. Will do so now.

Thanks again.

Hope the sun's shining where you are (pouring here)

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:22 pm

Hi Pinkshoes,

A possible explanation, one which i've come across a couple of times with my own rellies- eventually i twigged on to what was happening....
When i first started the Fam Hist i thought all BMDs, censuses etc were true - didn't take long for that idea to evaporate!
--
Maybe George & Helen's 1905 MC should've had Catherine Wilson as Helen's mother - but it was somehow wrongly recorded as Helen.

So years later when Helen Bateman (Wilson) died, the informant, not being too sure of Helen's parents' names, just copied what Helen had said on her MC - thereby perpetuating the original error.

Finding siblings BMDs would, hopefully, confirm this - as Wilma suggests the 1901 census would be a good start for names & birthplaces (maybe 1891 too once you have a fair idea where they are living).

Just a pity you have the popular name of Wilson to look for. But one thing in its favour is that it's very rarely spelled in other ways!

Jack
--
ps, i've asked a good few folk (those not agile enough to escape me!) if they could name their 4 Gr-parents, and amazingly very many couldn't. Their grandmothers were the two they were less sure on for forenames, and more so on the maiden names.
Just a guess as to the reason why this happens.
Many gr-fathers seem to be named - eg take a John Smith & his wife Jean Brown.
John would be known as Granda John, but Jean would be known as Granny Smith.
--

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:25 pm

Jack thanks for that. I suspect you're probably right - I have experienced the name changing business too. In fact, some of my rellies don't seem to know their own name half the time, let along anyone else.

I know if I don't leave the right trail my descendents would never find me - I have several handles on my jug, none of which I have ever used as my forename except on official docs. My Real Name is not recorded anywhere official. Hopefully I'm setting that straight in my tree.

I thought perhaps Catherine's middle name could be Helen, but I've just got her bc - nope.

Anyway, I think Catherine is the one, just wondered if folks here thought the clues of John's occupation, matching names down generations etc., might be enough to go on (that and the total absence of a suitable Helen).

I do have the 1901 and 1891 census for the household of John & Catherine (including Helen of the right age to be mine) so I will search for more clues among siblings - I have bc for one of Catherine's other daughters, but I might be better among the deaths to see if anyone else got her name wrong.

You're right about grandparents names - guilty! I didn't know my grandma's maiden name till I started researching Fam Hist in January - strangely though, I've traced her family back (tentatively of course) to late 1600's - given that up as a joke for now though.

Thanks again for all the help.

apanderson · Post by **apanderson** » Sun May 21, 2006 11:11 pm

Hello pinkshoes,

I've sent you a PM regarding Batemans buried in Denny Cemetery.

Anne

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Sun May 21, 2006 11:43 pm

Hi Anne - great news, but no sign of a pm?? How about having another go

Pinkshoes

apanderson · Post by **apanderson** » Mon May 22, 2006 1:16 pm

Me at my best! I have no idea why my messages vanish - I must have 'that special touch'!

I'll just post the info here.

These might be of no use to you whatsover as they're all reasonably recent.

The names in brackets are the women's married names.

BATEMAN, Annie (nee Grant) died 06.02.2000 aged 87
BATEMAN, Catherine (Killiard) died 01.03.1993 aged 87
BATEMAN, Eileen died 08.11.1945 aged 2
BATEMAN, George died 22.08.1944 aged 62
BATEMAN, Helen (nee Wilson) died 26.09.1953aged 68
BATEMAN, John Wislon died 08.08.1992 aged 80
BATEMAN, Margaret (nee Clark) died 13.03.1986 aged 86
BATEMAN, Mary (Bald) died 04.01.1993 aged 79
BATEMAN, Thomas died 20.04.1943 aged 20 (WW2)
BATEMAN, Thomas Paxton died 21.06.1965 aged 61

Anne

CatrionaL · Post by **CatrionaL** » Mon May 22, 2006 1:27 pm

Hi Anne

When my pm messages "vanish" it's usually because I forgot to indicate the subject of the post in the appropriate place. Still happens to me regularly, though I should know better by now.

Happy Hunting

Catriona