Help with Harris MacDonalds puzzle please.....

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:22 pm

Wonder if anyone can help/comment.
I've got husb's great grandmother Christina M(a)cDonald b. 30.03.1861 @ Luskintyre (I think Gaelic Losgaintir), Harris.
Her parents show as Donald, Farm Grieve, and Margaret nee McLeod, showing m. March 1849 in Harris.
Am then struggling. Cannot find the marraige (could this be because they are not protestant?).
Can not find relevant births, or any relevant births of siblings.
On 1881 census there are a Donald (66) Mason, and Margaret (56) Wife, with a William (28), Son, fisherman. Don't seem to be any other Donald/Margaret pairings that look right.
Can not find William's birth.
Have found death certs relevant to both of the above (census) Donald and Margaret, both notified by son William. But both again refer to dad Donald as a Mason.
Should I assume that I have the right or the wrong family before I get excited and start tracking back from these death certs??
Sorry about the novel, but I'd be interested in comments.
Kind Regards
Ellen.

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:24 pm

Sorry, don't know where the cool smiley came from! Williams age is 28 on the census!
Ellen.

MaryE · Post by **MaryE** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:32 am

Hi Ellen

The IGI seems to have five possible births to this couple:

Margaret (1849), Angus (1852), Mary (1854), Flora (1856) and Christina (1861).

Given that it seems likely that there were no other children after Christina, have you checked to see whether one or both parents died soon after this and therefore before the 1881 census? Have you got Christina's marriage certificate? If so, does this give her parents as deceased?

Mary

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:45 am

Thanks Mary
You're obviously more accomplished at searching than me - but I'm learning fast.

Both Donald and Maggie, as she is referred to on the marraige cert, are apparently still alive at Christina's marraige in Glasgow on 13 Sept 1888, so this all fits with the deaths I have for the possible Donald of 1895 and Margaret (referred to as Maggie on Donald's death cert) of 1900.

The facts do all really seem to fit, but I'm concerned about the obvious difference in Donald's occupation. There's a big difference between a Farm Grieve and a Mason. I would have thought being a Mason was a trade you started to learn young - but I could be wrong!

I'll try finding the births you mentioned on Scotlandspeople again, as at least I'd be able to see if the father had either of the occupations above.

thanks for your help so far.

Regards

Ellen.

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:07 am

An Update:

Mary you are a star - I've found the kids on Scotlandspeople. don't know why I didn't earlier, must work out what I was doing wrong previously.

Meantime - Flora, being the latest born, after 1855, is the only cert I could see, and Donald is a Farm Servant!! - hadn't even been promoted to Grieve yet, let alone changed profession to Mason.

I've rechecked all my census searches and there are no other Donald/Margaret couples that could possibly fit, so it must be them.

I'd be really interested as to how you become a Mason as late in life as he must have done.

Thanks. Ellen.

Post by **AndrewP** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:10 am

Hi Ellen,

There will only be birth certificates for the last two. They should both be on ScotlandsPeople. The older children were born pre-1855, so their births will be in the OPRs, not yet available as online images.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

edit: Ellen, you beat me to it. We must have neen writing at the same time.

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:15 am

Blimey - after me getting so excited, I've just brought myself down to earth.
I was right the death certs I have are for the wrong parents - Margarets parents are not M(a)cLeod.
Phew after all that I'm nearly back to square 1!
But not quite, as I have the rest of the kids.
Looks as though the whole family moved off the island then. I'm going to have to go and start searching for them all again.

Thanks to you both Mary and Andrew. I'm sure I'll be back begging for your help. Like everyone else, I have several brickwalls.

Kind Regards

Ellen.

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:34 am

To my eternal shame I can never remember which is which........ either it was Lewis that was predominantly Catholic, and Harris staunchly Protestant, or the reverse

but whichever, the Protestant part would have been predominantly Free Kirk from 1843 onwards after the "Disruption", and many such Free Kirk records weren't made in the first place in the first decade or so (when you've been chucked out of your church, and haven't a place to worship, there are higher priorities than record keeping), and, even where the records were made and are extant, it's unlikely that they will be included in the OPR index on scotlandspeople.gov.uk, or IGI.........

From the marriage records of the children, particularly the daughters, is there any evidence that the family were "Free Kirk"?

Davie

PS Extract from an article to appear in Family History Monthly (UK) February edition, - "Why Can't I Find That Scottish Birth Certificate?"

"By the early 1800s, most especially in urban areas, more and more births were not being recorded. A survey in Glasgow in the 1820s, for instance, found that as many as 50% of births were going unrecorded. Rural parishes were probably still better than urban areas.

Then came the Disruption in 1853, when 40% of the ministers broke away from the Established Church of Scotland to form the Free Kirk. Some estimates put the number of the members of the Established Church that this involved as high as 60%. Many of these breakaway congregations had nowhere to worship for some years, and the minister and the kirk session had this and other more important matters on their mind compared to good record keeping. In some areas, in the period from 1843 to 1854, it is estimated that as few as 20% of birth/baptism records were made or have survived to the present day. Fortunately the 1841 and 1851 censuses can help to cover this gap. "

ellenavon · Post by **ellenavon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:09 am

Thanks, Big Wullie, for those few cheery words!
I'll get there in the end - but for tonight I'd better get to my bed, ready to be bright and breezy for those folk who pay my wages in a few hours time.
Thanks
Ellen.

Post by **AndrewP** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:18 am

Hi Ellen,

What document(s) do you have that show Christina MacDonald as being born on 30-Mar-1861 at Luskentyre (Losgaintir)? The entry on the online IGI is an LDS submission and there is no sign of a matching record there from the statutory records.

A parent search on the online IGI for Donald MacDonald / Margaret MacLeod for all of Scotland produces a fair amount of results. Unfortunately most of them are LDS submissions. You should be seeking verifiable documentation - ie. OPRs (pre-1855) and statutory records (from 1855). Also, where possible, the census reports to match them.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson