Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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Love
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Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by Love » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:58 pm

I would be very grateful for any information or 'Histories' anyone may have on our Love Family in Scotland. Daniel Love was born on 9th March 1813 in Campbeltown and his parents were John and Ann. We believe he was a convict and transported to Australia. I have court transcripts for Daniel but we would like further proof he is our Daniel ! Any info would be gratefully received. We have most of the family history since Daniel. I have an email address any infor could be sent to. Thank you.

SarahND
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Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by SarahND » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:13 am

Hello and [TS_welcome]

Just to clarify, I'm seeing a Daniel Love, age 18, who was sentenced to 14 years on 26 April 1833 at the Glasgow Court of Justiciary. In the NSW Convict Indents database his native place is given as Argyleshire and his calling "Tailor's boy."
Have you identified him as the one christened in Campbeltown in 1813 because that is the only one that appears to exist in Argyll OPRs around the right time? Or do you have some other proof of his place of birth and/or his date of birth?

I note on FamilySearch.org that his parents were John Love and Agnes Macsporran and that there were several other children born to that couple, all in Campbeltown.

Agnes Love, Widow in Campbeltown in 1841, is living with her son James who is a cotton hand loom weaver, so that fits with the tailor's boy occupation-- at least it is in textiles!

Have you looked at the original christening record to see if there is further information that might help? It should be available on ScotlandsPeople (link near the top of this page).

All the best,
Sarah

nelmit
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Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by nelmit » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:14 pm

There is a wee snippet in the Glasgow Herald but no clues as to where he was born. Curiously the next item down in the court report outlaws a John Love for not turning up at court.

Looks like his brother John was living at Glasgow from 1841 onwards and he is a Tailor.

1851 -

John Love 40 born Campbeltown, Tailor
Mary Love 34
John Love 1 Mo

Regards,
Annette

Currie
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Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by Currie » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:16 pm

Hello Love,

I think this is the item Annette found. Glasgow Herald, April 29, 1833 (5th column of page 4). http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=G ... page&hl=en

The career of transported convicts was usually pretty well documented but not to the extent that the authorities ever cared whether they had parents.

Was he the one who died in 1901 in Victoria age 89? Victoria death certificates contain birth and parent information if known to the informant.

Is his religion shown on the Convict Indent? Looking at the free name search on SP for slightly later years there seems to be as much chance the name has Catholic origins.

In the convict records there’s the trial, and the transportation on the ship ‘Fairlie’, but have you been able to follow a paper trail of ticket of leave, permission to marry, pardon, whatever, that leads to your Daniel Love.

If I search NSW State Records index for anything to do with a Daniel and the ‘Fairlie’ all I get is tickets of leave for a LOWE and a LOW. Maybe there was twice a transcription problem? http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes ... el:Fairlie

All the best,
Alan

nelmit
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Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by nelmit » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:55 pm

That certainly looks like him transcribed as Low/e Alan.

I've just noticed that Love states Daniel's parents as John and Ann so maybe he/she has seen an official document with that info.

Love,
What names did Daniel give his children?

Regards,
Annette

Currie
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Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by Currie » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:02 am

The NSW State Records ticket-of-leave entry shown for Daniel Low has the District as Belfast. Belfast is now known as Port Fairy, and is in the State of Victoria. Before 1851 Victoria was part of New South Wales and that’s why a NSW convict would have been sent there.

Port Fairy was and is a small town. It seems that before about 1843 it wasn’t even that, and by 1857 the population had reached only just over 2000. On this page you’ll see some ticket-of-leave convicts from the Portland - Port Fairy district c1845. He’s been transcribed as “Daniel Sone? Lane.Lowe?*”, but I looked at the original and I saw Love. The entry seems to say that he is in the employ of Mr Atkinson of Belfast. That would have been the Atkinson who owned the land and established, and named the town.

Daniel Love is mentioned in this book in relation to Methodism in the 1840s in Port Fairy. The fellow who died in 1901 who I earlier referred to was a Methodist lay preacher. http://archive.org/stream/earlystoryofw ... 0/mode/2up

According to this page Daniel Love was the son of John Love and Ann McPherson, and married Suzannah Elizabeth Woolner on 12 February 1855 in Belfast (Port Fairy). There seems to have been only one child, James born 1857. http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/us ... -0031.html

The name was pretty unusual. There were only 11 in the 1841 Scottish census. There was probably no more than one person given that name every four or five years in Scotland. I don’t think there’s any doubt that the convict ended up as the preacher, although such a history would have been kept a secret, if possible, in those days..

Alan

nelmit
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Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by nelmit » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:23 am

Great stuff Alan - very interesting too.

That family tree showing him married to Susannah is on Ancestry too. Like Love they have the birth of Daniel as 9th March 1813 which is the same as the Daniel born to John Love and Agnes Macsporran.

So I suppose the question now is - where did they find the info that he was born on 9th March 1813 and that his parents were John Love and Ann McPherson??

Regards,
Annette

Love
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Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by Love » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:48 pm

Hello Sarah, Annette and Alan,
Thank you all so much for replying to my ‘post’. I do have most of the info you have mentioned and I will look up a couple of the links you have supplied that I haven’t yet researched. I am just trying to verify that the convict Daniel Love is our ‘Daniel’ as some names/dates/ages don’t seem to correspond exactly. We have copies of the ‘papers’ from the Court case (1833) from National Archives of Scotland, also most of his convict records including being assigned to Richard Hipkiss at Parramatta, and on his Ticket of Leave dated 27th March 1844, to remain in Parramatta, but it also has written across it “Allowed to Port Fairy 27 June 1846” and also “This Ticket has been replaced at Port Fairy and an new one issued in lieu No 51/1”. But no sign of a “Permission to Marry” or Pardon.
We obtained the information regarding Daniel’s birth from original copies of OPR Birth & Baptism records on Scotlands People, where it states his father John Love was a weaver and his mother is Agnus MacSporran. His mother was recorded as ‘Ann McPherson’ on Daniel and ‘Susannah’ Elizabeth’s marriage certificate (she was known as Elizabeth) and his father as John Love a Linen Weaver. They had only one child – James. We have Daniel and Elizabeth’s Death Certificates, James’ Birth &Death Certificates. Our Daniel was a Methodist Preacher in his early years and died at Nhill, Victoria on Sept 1st 1901. On his death Cert if states by his son the informant, that he had been in “Victoria” for 55 years. This equates to 1846 ! (date on Ticket of Leave) As Alan commented he didn’t think there’s any doubt that the convict ended up as the preacher but also that his ‘history’ would have been kept a secret if possible. We think now our beliefs may be correct.
By the way we (Great Grandson) live 15 mins from Port Fairy !
Thank you again – Daryl & Heather

Currie
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Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by Currie » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:34 am

Hello Daryl & Heather,

In relation to the OPR birth the parent’s names aren’t too far out. The father matches and for the mother Ann, I think, is probably just a friendlier form of Agnes. I’m actually wondering just what would be the chances that someone who had been dragged away from his family at a fairly young age, and completely cut off from them, would correctly remember his mother’s maiden name. Even though married women in Scotland did use their maiden names, and I don’t know how often that was the case, maybe a child in a family would not often hear his mother’s maiden name mentioned in the normal course of living. Hope that makes sense.

All the best,
Alan

Love
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:39 am

Re: Love Family Scottish Ancestors

Post by Love » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:20 am

HI Alan,
We were thinking along those lines also. He didn't marry until he was 41 years of age so may not needed to even think of his Mother's Maiden name until then. Having spent approx. 11 years of his 14 years convicted, and then another approx 11 years until he married - he could have just forgotten or it could have been mistaken in some transcription too. Anyway we are 99.9% sure he is the same Daniel Love and we're happy to claim him as ours. Thank you also for the link to the book on Victorian Methodist. That also ties in with another book which is "The Diaries of Sarah Midgley and Richard Skilbeck" which is located near Koroit just north or Port Fairy.
Thank you again and of course we keep researching anyway !!
Cheers
Daryl and Heather

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