Jeanie Fraser GRAY.....

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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WilmaM
Posts: 1683
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Jeanie Fraser GRAY.....

Post by WilmaM » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:19 am

I have a very elusive lady that was married, gave birth but hasn't been recorded as doing anything else !

Jeanie Fraser GRAY
She gave birth to a son in 1921 at Shettleston
and was married in 1915 to :
Joseph Tait MORRIS farm servant bachelor age 19 of Burntbroom Broomhouse
Jeanie Fraser GRAY Domestic Servant Spinster age 23 parents ; Alexander McMillan Gray, coalminer and Jane Gray ms Fraser,[both presumed alive then] address 1 Kenmure Buildings Carmyle

Joseph died in 1950 aged 53 in Dumbarton [usual address Cardross] and his wife, Jeanie Fraser Gray, was alive then and I gather lived well beyond 1953 [ so no DC for her yet]

I can't find a birth for her or the marriage or births of her parents - Alexander McMillan Gray & Jane Fraser.
There is a death in 1935 for an Alexander McMillan GRAY coalminer aged 71 ? Mount Vernon Lanarkshire but he was a widower of an Isabella Melville. which throws me off track.

I have looked in the census for the family but can't find a match so don't even know if she was born in Scotland. As her groom was 4 years younger on the marriage cert. I have considered the possibility that she was more than 23 :wink:

Can anyone point out the obvious thing I must surely be missing? :shock:

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Re: Jeanie Fraser GRAY

Post by DavidWW » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:53 am

WilmaM wrote:I have a very elusive lady that was married, gave birth but hasn't been recorded as doing anything else !

Jeanie Fraser GRAY
She gave birth to a son in 1921 at Shettleston
and was married in 1915 to :
Joseph Tait MORRIS farm servant bachelor age 19 of Burntbroom Broomhouse
Jeanie Fraser GRAY Domestic Servant Spinster age 23 parents ; Alexander McMillan Gray, coalminer and Jane Gray ms Fraser,[both presumed alive then] address 1 Kenmure Buildings Carmyle

Joseph died in 1950 aged 53 in Dumbarton [usual address Cardross] and his wife, Jeanie Fraser Gray, was alive then and I gather lived well beyond 1953 [ so no DC for her yet]

I can't find a birth for her or the marriage or births of her parents - Alexander McMillan Gray & Jane Fraser.
There is a death in 1935 for an Alexander McMillan GRAY coalminer aged 71 ? Mount Vernon Lanarkshire but he was a widower of an Isabella Melville. which throws me off track.

I have looked in the census for the family but can't find a match so don't even know if she was born in Scotland. As her groom was 4 years younger on the marriage cert. I have considered the possibility that she was more than 23 :wink:

Can anyone point out the obvious thing I must surely be missing? :shock:
Illegitimate child of Jane/Jean etc., registered under FRASER ?

Davie

sporran
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:40 pm
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK

Re: Jeanie Fraser Gray

Post by sporran » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:28 am

Hello Wilma,


never easy with names like Gray and Fraser, so make some assumptions to start with. It looks like they did not stray far from the districts of Shettleston, Barony, Old Monkland, and possibly Rutherglen (there may be others but my knowledge of the area is from limited maps). Also assume that his death age of 71 in 1935 is correct, so he would have been 36-38 in 1901.

Search the 1901 census for Lanarkshire for Alex* Gray 36-38, and one should jump out as likely. This will give you the names that the family were using.

Now knowing Jeanie's first name, you should be able to find her birth, and she did seem to be truthful about her age (and Davie was correct in his suggestion).

I found no marriage, and since the 1901 census shows Jean keeping her former married name, I suspect that it was an irregular one.


Regards,

John

WilmaM
Posts: 1683
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Post by WilmaM » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:48 pm

Thanks Sporran,

I had just unearthed one census return for 1901 and was scratching my head over it when your reply came in.

I take it we are talking about the same one.
[622/02/000 001]
I'm afraid I've got rusty at reading these things so I'm struggling here...

South Shettleston
29 Dunlop? Street Tollcross
1 Jessie Gray head widow 61 Glasgow Lanarkshire
Robert " son S 28 Coalminer Glasgow "
John " son " 22 " Baillieston "
2Alexander " son " 37 Coalminer ?? Lnrk
Jane Sime ? wife W 49 farmworker Tollcross "
May? J. Fraser Dau S 9 Scholar ???? ???shire !

It all seems be be fitting in, I've found a Bruce Sime marrying a Jane Fraser in 1896.
the Alexander Gray DC has parent's Jessie & William
but I have also found him getting married to Isabella Melville in 1903 ?
I hadn't found a Jane Grays death around then but If they weren't married I suppose I should start looking under Fraser & Sime .

Who ever wrote that cenus page should have been shot :? I'm going skelly trying to read it :( If I could just see through the big black score I'd maybe be able to work out where she was born and narrow the search down.
Never mind I'll try again tomorrow when I'm feeling wider awake.

Thanks for the help

sporran
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:40 pm
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK

Re: that census entry

Post by sporran » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:37 pm

Hello Wilma,


put the deciphering to one side for the moment. The important things are that the women were recorded as Jane Sim and Mary J. Fraser, i.e. Jeanie was her second name. It was likely that the family stayed in the area, so search for the birth of Mary J* Fraser during 1891-2 in Lanarkshire. One entry will stand out (and there were only 2), and make things clearer.


Regards,

John

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:16 am

WilmaM wrote:....snipped..........
Who ever wrote that cenus page should have been shot :? I'm going skelly trying to read it :( If I could just see through the big black score I'd maybe be able to work out where she was born and narrow the search down.
Never mind I'll try again tomorrow when I'm feeling wider awake.
If you are unsuccessfull, there's two possibilities.

First, email me a copy, and, I'll add it to a site, and can post a URL link here so that lots of people can have a look.

If that fails then you need to get to NRH, or get someone on their next visit to New Register House to have a look, or request a supervisor to have a look in the original enumeration book. It may well be the case that the score mark that is causing problems is in a different colour of pencil, and the writing underneath quite clear - unfortunately this comes out as black on black in a B&W scan (unsurprisingly :!: )

Orraverybest

Davie

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:42 am

Sporran very kindly located the image which can be seen at ...

http://www.talkingscot.com/gallery/albu ... Fraser.tif


I'm fairly certain I know what the location is, but am interested in the interpretation of other eyes.

There's a couple of things in this situation that I don't know if I believe, and someone may be telling a porky (for those not familiar with this expression, it's Cockney rhyming slang. Just to confuse you the rhyming bit is often dropped, - in this case the full version of the slang is "porky pie", - you want the full explanation? :!: - you want it easy :!: :twisted: )

Orraverybest

Davie

PS Can anyone work out the place of birth of Jane SIM's husband, Alexander GREY? It's Lanarkshire, but where in Lanarkshire :?:

PPS The reason that the place of birth for Mary J FRASER has been scored out is that the clerk was highlighting those not born in the county, in this case Lanarkshire, as that was one of the statistics calculated from the census returns. Reading the reports from the censuses can be fascinating. In this particular context, for example, as it gives a measure, not totally reliable (think about it!) of the mobility of the population.
dww
Last edited by DavidWW on Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:51 pm

The definition of the image uploaded as a JPEG is less than ideal.

As soon as I can I'll upload a TIFF version............

Orraverybest

Davie

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:27 pm

JPEG image in post above now replaced with a TIFF image, which should be clearer........

Davie

Jack
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
Location: Paisley

Post by Jack » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:00 pm

Hi Davie,

For some reason (probably mine!) i can't view the TIFF image (i could the JPEG though), but next visit to Glasgow i'll have a look at the film.

Jack

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