Annie (Ann) Joseph & David Dawson - HELP PLEASE!.....

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David McAllen
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:29 am

Annie (Ann) Joseph & David Dawson - HELP PLEASE!.....

Post by David McAllen » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:15 am

Hi everyone.

This is my first attempt at this so please forgive me if this doesn't make sense.

I am married to Anne-Marie Dawson who is the great grandaughter of Joseph Dawson. We have been researching her family history for about a week now and have run into some trouble.

Joseph and David Dawson were twins born illigitemate to Annie Dawson 12th January 1883. Joseph goes on to marry Elizabeth Broadley on 29th December 1905 and dies March 1920. All of this happens in Dumbarton. Joseph was father to James, William, Elizabeth and "Nan" Dawson. James is father to my wifes father. (I hope you are keeping up). We have struggled to positively locate Annie or Ann Dawson and David anywhere after 1883. Annie only appears on Joseph's marriage and death certs. she was a bleachfield worker and then domestic servant.

We have found an Ann Dawson aged 17, living at 183 High Street, Dumbarton on the 1881 census and she was born in Partick. Her family, without her and her father (mother not listed as a widwow but married), then appear on the 1891 census at 76 Dumbarton Road, Partick. However we still have no positive information to say that this is her.

Ann Dawson was the daughter of James (blacksmiths foreman) and Mary (Strang) and they were married in October 1863 and Ann was born in November 1863. Mary dies in 1912 in Hillhead, Glasgow. We have not found James' death.

So if anyone has any ideas that might help then we'd love to hear them.

Good Luck to all of you out there.

David McAllen

nelmit
Posts: 3979
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Annie (Ann) Joseph & David Dawson - HELP PLEASE!

Post by nelmit » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:11 am

David McAllen wrote:Hi everyone.

We have found an Ann Dawson aged 17, living at 183 High Street, Dumbarton on the 1881 census and she was born in Partick. Her family, without her and her father (mother not listed as a widwow but married), then appear on the 1891 census at 76 Dumbarton Road, Partick. However we still have no positive information to say that this is her.

Ann Dawson was the daughter of James (blacksmiths foreman) and Mary (Strang) and they were married in October 1863 and Ann was born in November 1863.
So if anyone has any ideas that might help then we'd love to hear them.

Good Luck to all of you out there.

David McAllen
Hello and welcome David,

I don't have much to offer except to say that the family on the 1881 census living in High Street, Dumbarton is almost certainly yours.
A parent search on the IGI for children born to James DAWSON and Mary STRANG gives :

1. JANE DAWSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 FEB 1865 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

2. JOHN DAWSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 24 OCT 1867 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

3. MARGARET DAWSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 07 APR 1869 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

4. WILLIAM STRANG DAWSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 28 SEP 1873 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

5. JAMES STRANG DAWSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 16 JAN 1871 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

6. JAMES STRANG DAWSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 29 MAR 1872 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

7. ANN DAWSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 26 NOV 1863 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

8. JANET DAWSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 18 MAR 1866 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

It looks as though a couple are missing from the 1881 census so perhaps they did not survive.

As for Ann DAWSON mother of the illegitimate twins have you checked to see if she got married between the 1881 and 1891 censuses? There are two in Dunbarton in that space of time but of course neither of them may be her.

Hope this helps,
Annette M

David McAllen
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:29 am

Ann Dawson, David Dawson

Post by David McAllen » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:29 am

Thanks Annette

We have not been able to find an Ann Dawson marrying in Dumbarton on Scotlandspeople website in that time. Where else might I look?

Thanks again.

Regards

David

nelmit
Posts: 3979
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Ann Dawson, David Dawson

Post by nelmit » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:35 am

David McAllen wrote:Thanks Annette

We have not been able to find an Ann Dawson marrying in Dumbarton on Scotlandspeople website in that time. Where else might I look?

Thanks again.

Regards

David
Hello Dave,

Nothing comes up on SP for Ann DAWSON but try Ann* DAWSON and there is two. Neither of them may be yours but here's hoping.

Annette

Andy
Posts: 731
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:06 am
Location: Gourock

Post by Andy » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:08 pm

This is really weird I can't find a Joseph or David Dawson (or Buchanan, that's a big hint) in the 1891 or 1901 censuses. Nor can I see any deaths for people of the right ages from 1883 to 1901.

Ann* is in the 1891 census with husband and two new children the hint above will help.
Searching for Keogh, Kelly, Fitzgerald, Riddell, Stewart, Wilson, McQuilkin, Lynch, Boyle, Cairney, Ross, King, McIlravey, McCurdy, Drennan and Woods (to name but a few).

Also looking for any information on Rathlin Island, County Antrim, Ireland.

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:25 am

David

The death of James DAWSON is straightforward to find.......

You know that Mary died in 1912 in Glasgow, and she is shown as a widow.

Not sure if you have the family in the 1901 census, but you know that Mary should be there. If James is also there that gives you the date range for his death of 1901 to 1912, most probably in Glasgow. Alternatively if he is not there and Mary is shown as a widow, then the date range is 1889 (on Annie's marriage register entry he is not shown as deceased) to 1901. In either case set up a search on scotlandseople.gov.uk for those date ranges, set an appropriate age range, restrict the search to Glasgow City and I can assure you that you will be quickly looking at a fascinating death record entry which shows that the info on his 1863 marriage register entry wasn't strictly correct.

Later: The most likely reason for the "disappearance" of Joseph and David is that they took their father's surname. Unfortunately the 1883 birth register entries only show the mother's name, and there's no RCE.

Depending on how important it is to locate them, it could be worth a look through the film of the 1891 census for Dumbarton for a a Joseph and David, both aged 8 years.... but there's no guarantee that they are in Dumbarton ...........

Later Still: I misread Andy's post, - hadn't realised that he'd only searched for deaths up to 1901, and that you already have Joseph's death record, - but was it an accident or was it suicide? Neither his marriage or death records give any info on his father.

Trying the same for David doesn't produce a hit, - the 1917 Marine Records death is for someone else, per the Commonwealth Graves Commission site........

Davie

David McAllen
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:29 am

Post by David McAllen » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:50 pm

Davie

Thank you for your help. With everyones help we have unravelled much information.

We did think there was something wrong with the ages from looking at the marriage of James & Mary and then the census of 1881 and that shows a discrepancy.

However, we do not know anything that happened to David Dawson or where the twins went after they were born.

We do know from the census's that Annie's mother had family in England and perhaps they went there between their birth and Annie's marriage to James Buchanan.

This is all assuming that this Ann Dawson is the same Annie Dawson. Her age fits, where she lives and Ann does become Annie (small point I know). We don't have any solid proof!

I need to recap everything and then decide where to look next.

Thanks again.

Regards

David

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