Hay/Hannah.....

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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karenmcc
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:53 am
Location: australia

Hay/Hannah.....

Post by karenmcc » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:18 am

Hi All,

I have just joined the group, although I have been watching for a while, and would like to say a big Thank You to Jack for letting me know about it.

I would also really appreciate some help in determining if I am on the right track with a new branch of my family I have just started on.

Have found the MC of my GGgrandparents, William Hay and Janet Burnside m 28 Feb 1879 in Muirkirk. William has given his age as 21 and his parents as William Hay (deceased) and Jane MS Hannah. Also have Williams birth place as Kirkcudbright from the 1881 census.

Looked for his birth and came up with:William Hay b 3 Jan 1856, parish of Parton (illegitimate), mother, Jane Hay (domestic servant) Informant, Marion Hannah (grandmother). Also had a look for a marriage for William Hay and Jane Hannah or other children born to couple and found nothing.
So this makes me think he Either didn't know the truth about his parents or wanted to make things look good on his MC.

So, I decided to look for Marion Hannah on IGI. Found a marriage (extracted) for Marion Hannay and Alexander Hay, 27 Jul 1832, Balmaclellan, Kirkcudbright.

Did a parent search for this couple and found; Marion Ch 1837, Janet b 1843, Martha Ch 1848 and Agnes ch 1853 all extracted entries with Marions name as both Hannah and Hannay. Also Mary b 1832, Jean b 1834 (who I am hoping is my Jane), Alexander b 1838, Robert b 1840, Thomas b 1845 and Andrew b 1851 all submitted entries. Some of these give Alexanders name as Hayes.

Have also found them on FreeCen in Kirkcudbright in 1851.

Alexander Hay 48 Head born St Cuthberts, Edinburgh
Marion Hay 39 born Balmaclellan
Marion Hay 14 " " "
Alexander Hay 12 " " "
Robert Hay 10 " " "
Janet Hay 8 " " "
Thomas Hay 5 " " "
Martha Hay 2 born Parton

Also think I have found Jane/Jean Hay 15 Servant in Household of Joseph Craig b Balmaclellan.

It all seems to fit in, but how do I know for sure?

Karen McCubbin

nelmit
Posts: 3979
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:24 pm

Hello Karen,

I don't know how this might help but there is a Jean HAY on the 1881 census. Could this be the one you found in 1851?

I don't have any time left on SP at the moment but it might be worth a look for this woman's death entry even to rule her out.


Dwelling: Rhonehouse
Census Place: Kelton, Kircudbright, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224057 GRO Ref Volume 869 EnumDist 10 Page 9
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Jean HAY U 46 F Balmaclellan, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Dairy Maid

Regards,
Annette M

karenmcc
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:53 am
Location: australia

Hay/Hannah

Post by karenmcc » Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:20 am

Hi Annette,

Thanks for your reply. I'll have to keep a very open mind with all this. If i am on the right track with Jane being the daughter of Alexander and Marion, there is a submitted entry on the IGI that claims Jean b1834 died on 18 Feb 1861.

The other bit of info that led me to believe Jane was the daughter of Alexander Hay and Marion Hannah was the entry directly below William Hays birth. Margerat Hay b 21 Jan 1856, Parish of Parton (illegitimate) mother, Marion Hay (Dom Serv) Informant, Marion Hannah (grandmother). Am I correct in believing it was not unusual for women to use their maiden names?

Karen McCubbin

nelmit
Posts: 3979
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Hay/Hannah

Post by nelmit » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:06 am

karenmcc wrote:Hi Annette,

Thanks for your reply. I'll have to keep a very open mind with all this. If i am on the right track with Jane being the daughter of Alexander and Marion, there is a submitted entry on the IGI that claims Jean b1834 died on 18 Feb 1861.

The other bit of info that led me to believe Jane was the daughter of Alexander Hay and Marion Hannah was the entry directly below William Hays birth. Margerat Hay b 21 Jan 1856, Parish of Parton (illegitimate) mother, Marion Hay (Dom Serv) Informant, Marion Hannah (grandmother). Am I correct in believing it was not unusual for women to use their maiden names?

Karen McCubbin
Hi Karen,

I just had to look at the birth entry after that wee story.

3 illegitimate children born in a row all having domestic servants as mothers!!!!!!! Now I know where Catherine Cookson does her research.

In answer to your question, I am certainly no expert but, yes it was common for a woman to revert to her maiden name when her husband died (or even when he was alive). I have seen this more than once in my searching. So we know that Marion HAY m.s. HANNAH had at least two illegitimate grandchildren.

I too saw the submitted 1861 death entry but having done a quick search on SP I am not so sure it is correct.

I don't know if the Jean HAY on the 1881 census is the daughter of Marion Hannah and Alexander HAY but searching for her death would hopefully confirm that - or not.

Good luck,
Annette M
Last edited by nelmit on Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

karenmcc
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:53 am
Location: australia

Hay/Hannah

Post by karenmcc » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:01 am

Hi Annette,

Found the DC. Jane Hay (single) d 6 Feb 1907, 68y. F Alexander Hay M. Marion Hay MS Hannay (both deceased) informant Alexander Payne (son-in-Law).

I thought looking for William Hays death would be a good idea. Unfortunately I have no idea where to look for him, and it is a very common name. This is all I know about him. Williams wife Janet Burnside had a son already when they married, named Dugald, and William and Janet had my Ggrandmother Mary Murdoch Burnside Hay in 1879. They are all together in the 1881 census in Muirkirk. Janet died in 1881 shortly after the census was taken. Mary was adopted by the McCall family (found her in the 1891 census) and I think Dugald went to live with Janets parents. Looked for William in the 1891 census, but nothing stood out. Looks like he's just taken off, god only knows where.

I'm convinced I have the right grandparents for William. Mayby if Jane was in service, he lived with the grandparents?

Karen McCubbin

nelmit
Posts: 3979
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

William HAY 1901

Post by nelmit » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:31 pm

Hi Karen,

There is a William HAY age 45 living in Dalry Ayr on the 1901 census.

I think the 1861 & 1871 census records will shed more light on William's family. Hopefully the 1871 will be online soon.

I found it interesting that the informant on Jane's death certificate was her son in law. What was her address at time of death?

Annette M

karenmcc
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:53 am
Location: australia

Hay/Hannah

Post by karenmcc » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:43 pm

Hi Annette,

Janes address was just given as Rhonehouse. The son-in-laws address was 16 Lochrin? Place, Edinburgh. There are a few Hay girls born in Kirkcudbright with mother given as just Jane, but couldn't find any that had married a Payne.

I think this is interesting. Quite a few of my Grandfathers siblings have the middle name McCall. I was speaking to one of my Great Aunts a couple of months ago ( her Husband was one of the brothers that had the McCall middle name). She spent a lot of time with my Ggranny and when I asked where the middle name came from, she told me it was the family that had adopted Mary after her mother died. After finding them in the 1891 census looked them up on the IGI, and I'm pretty sure this is Mary's Grandmothers (on her mothers side) sisters family.

This is proving to be a very confusing family!

Karen McCubbin

karenmcc
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:53 am
Location: australia

Post by karenmcc » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:17 am

Hi All,

I am now in contact with a descendant (who I hope is my relation) of Alexander Hay and Marion Hannah/y. He recently accessed the 1861 census, and this is what he found.

1861 census for Crossmichael, Kirkcudbright

Alexander Hay Head 60
Marion Wife 49
Mary daugh 28
Robert son 20
Andrew son 9
William son 5

But now I am concerned that I was too quick to jump to conclusions with claiming the illigitimate William as mine, and mayby there is one born to a William Hay and Jane Hannah and I just can't see it because I have already clouded my judgement by believing what I have found to be true.

Can anyone see something I may have missed, and how likely do you think it is that I have the right birth.

Karen McCubbin
Lochiel, McKinlay, McGibbon/McCubbin, Cunningham, McDougall, Burnside - Lanarkshire->Ayrshire.
Hay, Hannah, - Kirkcudbright.
McIntosh, McQuaters/McWatters, White, - Kilmarnock
Murdoch, Hope, McMillan - Muirkirk

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