Help please - Andrew Wilson death 1870/1871.....

[ellenavon]

I wonder if anyone can help please - I'm going demented looking for the birth or death of ANDREW WILSON, Provision Merchant from Galston, Ayrshire & could do with some fresh eyes or experience to tell me what I am missing.

Andrew Wilson married Agnes Manson after banns called first on 29 May 1825 @ Galston, Ayrshire. Extract says Andrew Wilson @ Muirhouse and Agnes Manson @ Millands. (Found her brother James still at Millands in 1881 - age 96)

They had 5 children I know of (none of whose births I can find registered anywhere), all born Paisley, Renfrewshire according to their marriage certs/census details. (Have checked all 4 Paisley parishes on Scotlandspeople)

Robert Wilson c.1830
John Manson Wilson c.1831 (hubby's gg grandfather) d.1892
Agnes Wilson c.1835
James Wilson c.1840
Gavin Wilson c.1843

Andrew was alive for John Manson Wilsons second marraige in April 1870, but Agnes is widowed at 1871 census, living with all of the above kids, except for John Manson, still unmarried, at Abbotsford Place, Govan.

For the life of me I can not find Andrew's death (or his birth). I've tried searching for Wilson/Willson. There are only 2 Andrew Wilsons died in that period in Lanarkshire and neither is him. Also tried Ayrshire and Paisley. Nothing.

There is a possible birth on IGI, but its a submission and can find nothing to connect it. Andrew Willson b. 28 Mar 1790 @ Loudon, Ayr, to James Willson and ? Jackson.

I have a will of an Andrew Wilson, Provision Merchant, Ayrshire d.1834, who might be an uncle, but can not as yet connect the families.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

Ellen.

[DavidWW]

I wonder if anyone can help please - I'm going demented looking for the birth or death of ANDREW WILSON, Provision Merchant from Galston, Ayrshire & could do with some fresh eyes or experience to tell me what I am missing.

Andrew Wilson married Agnes Manson after banns called first on 29 May 1825 @ Galston, Ayrshire. Extract says Andrew Wilson @ Muirhouse and Agnes Manson @ Millands. (Found her brother James still at Millands in 1881 - age 96)

They had 5 children I know of (none of whose births I can find registered anywhere), all born Paisley, Renfrewshire according to their marriage certs/census details. (Have checked all 4 Paisley parishes on Scotlandspeople)

Robert Wilson c.1830
John Manson Wilson c.1831 (hubby's gg grandfather) d.1892
Agnes Wilson c.1835
James Wilson c.1840
Gavin Wilson c.1843

Andrew was alive for John Manson Wilsons second marraige in April 1870, but Agnes is widowed at 1871 census, living with all of the above kids, except for John Manson, still unmarried, at Abbotsford Place, Govan.

For the life of me I can not find Andrew's death (or his birth). I've tried searching for Wilson/Willson. There are only 2 Andrew Wilsons died in that period in Lanarkshire and neither is him. Also tried Ayrshire and Paisley. Nothing.

There is a possible birth on IGI, but its a submission and can find nothing to connect it. Andrew Willson b. 28 Mar 1790 @ Loudon, Ayr, to James Willson and ? Jackson.

I have a will of an Andrew Wilson, Provision Merchant, Ayrshire d.1834, who might be an uncle, but can not as yet connect the families.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

Ellen.

Ellen

Two comments.

While the info on whether or not the parents are deceased from the marriage register entry is most often correct, it's not always totally reliable. In other words Andrew may not have been alive in 1870.

Similarly, the fact that a woman describes herself as a widow is also normally reliable, but it's not unknown for a wife who has been deserted to describe herself as a widow, so that Andrew may have died later than 1871.......

Given the relatively few variants for WILSON, I'd suspect one of these possibilities.

It will not be cost effective on scotlandspeople.gov.uk to search for the death on a wider basis when a surname like WILSON is involved, - similarly for marriages of the siblings of John Manson WILSON, even Gavin!, - so you should consider using someone to do it on your behalf at New Register House in Edinburgh.

Davie

[ellenavon]

Thanks Davie - yes I may have to consider that.

I do have Gavin's marraige from SP. Married Eliza Inglis October 1873. Andrew noted as deceased.

Regards

Ellen.

[ellenavon]

Oops - just realised on closer looking that Andrew's home at marraige was Burnside, Galston not Muirside.

Had written in my notes Muirside when first received the extract a couple of months ago. Am now more used to reading the old writing, as have started transcribing Duthil & Rothiemurcus 1841 for Freecen. Cross eyed, but improving!

Checked 1881 census discs, but no Wilsons at Burnside by then.

Regards

Ellen.

[Jack]

Hi Ellen,

Can't help with Andrew's DC, but these census indexes give a fair idea of his age - born abt 1798, Kilmarnock.
Mother Agnes isn't with the family in 1841 - can't see her in Paisley at all, but you've got a few more children!
--
1841 cens 573 Ed 5 p 23 (High)
52 High St, Paisley
Andrew WILSON, 43, grain merchant, b SCT
Helen, 15
Robert, 13
John, 11
Mary, 9
Agnes, 7
Jean, 4
James, 2
Andrew, 1
--
1851 cens 622 Ed 23 p 10 (Tradeston)
Andrew WILSON, 52,
Agnes, 49
Helen, 24
Robert, 21
John, 19
Mary, 17
Agnes, 15
Jean, 13
James, 11
Andrew, 9
Gavin, 7
--
1861 cens 644-9 Ed 10 pp 17-18.
Andrew WILSON, 62, b Kilmarnock
Agnes, 59, b Galston
Robert, 31, b Paisley
John, 30, b ditto
Agnes, 26, b ditto
Jane, 23, b ditto
James, 21, b ditto
Andrew, 20, b ditto
Gavin, 18, b ditto
--
Jack

[sporran]

Hello Ellen,


thanks to Jack, we have a better idea of his age and likely years of death. Searching 1861 to 1871 for 60-75 year olds dying in Glasgow City brings up only 2, and one of them is your man.


Rgards,

John

[DavidWW]

Jack

Brilliant !!

Let me hastily rephrase what I wrote earlier ...........

Unless some kind soul can establish an age from the early censuses, it will not be cost effective on scotlandspeople.gov.uk to search for the death on a wider basis when a surname like WILSON is involved, - similarly for marriages of the siblings of John Manson WILSON, even Gavin!, - so you should consider using someone to do it on your behalf at New Register House in Edinburgh.

But if SKS does then you see how easy it can be

Davie

[ellenavon]

Thank you both so much! I'm off to SP right now.

Cheers

Ellen.

Got him - thanks again everyone for your help. And Davie....you were right - again! He was actually deceased when Gavin got married in 1870. I should always remember not to trust all of the info.

[DavidWW]

....snipped......... Got him - thanks again everyone for your help. And Davie....you were right - again! He was actually deceased when Gavin got married in 1870. I should always remember not to trust all of the info.

Ellen

You used the correct technique, in the sense of initially trusting the info that you had, but didn't make the next step of challenging the apparent facts when the expected record didn't turn up. Buit then, with a surname such as WILSON the situation ain't easy

I learnt this lesson many years ago when it took 7 years to find the death record for my g-grandfather Webster. His "widow" appears in the 1902 year book in Montrose, so how come he died in Dundee in 1909

The fact that he turned up in the 1901 census, when it became available, lodging, - the only "lodger", - with a widow a couple of streets a way in Montrose, and that the cause of death was cirrhosis of the liver may be connected, but might be pure libel as no information on the situation has come down the years..............

I would just have to believe that Andrew Wilson, Provision Merchant, Ayrshire d.1834, is connected .............. but proof is another matter altogether

Davie

[Jack]

Hi Ellen,
Just the census details. Mother Agnes was with her family in 1841, but under her m.s. of MANSON.
--
1841 cens 573 Ed 5 p 23 (High)
52 High St. Paisley.
Andrew WILSON, 43, grain merchant, b SCT
Agnes MANSON, 40, ----------- b RFW
Helen WILSON, 15
Robert WILSON, 13
Jn. WILSON, 11
Mary WILSON, 9
Agnes WILSON, 7
Jean WILSON, 4
James WILSON, 2
Andrew WILSON, 2 mos
Catherine WEIR, 28, female servant, no birth place.
[all children born RFW]
--
1851 cens 644-2 (622) Ed 23 p 10 (Tradeston)
100 Nelson St.
Andrew WILSON, head, marr, 52, victualler, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Agnes WILSON, wife, 49, ----------- b Galston, AYR
Helen WILSON, daur, u/m 24, dressmaker
Robert WILSON, son, u/m 21, victualler
John WILSON, son, u/m 19, victualler
Mary WILSON, daur, u/m 17, domestic duties
Agnes WILSON, daur, 15, domestic duties
Jean WILSON, daur, 13, scholar
James WILSON, son, 11, scholar
Andrew WILSON, son, 9, scholar
Gavin WILSON, son, 7, scholar
Thomas SHINANE? boarder, u/m 20, chemist, b Galston, AYR
Andrew FERGUSON, boarder, u/m 20, ---------- b Monkton, AYR
[all children born Abbey, RFW]
--
1861 cens 644-9 Ed 10 pp 17-18 (Laurieston)
14 Bedford St.
Andrew WILSON, head, marr, 62, hamcurer's salesman, b Kilmarnock
Agnes WILSON, wife, 59, ------------ b Galston
Robert WILSON, son, u/m 31, provision merchant
John WILSON, son, u/m 30, provision merchant
Agnes WILSON, daur, u/m 26, shopwoman (provision)
Jane WILSON, daur, u/m 23, housemaid
James WILSON, son, u/m 21, grocer
Andrew WILSON, son, u/m 20, small wares warehouseman
Gavin WILSON, son, u/m 18, foundry clerk
[all children born Paisley, RFW]
--
Jack