McGregors Stirlingshire.....***birthday bumped post***

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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pinkshoes
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McGregors Stirlingshire.....***birthday bumped post***

Post by pinkshoes » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:45 pm

This one has been driving me nuts for ages but dragged it out again in the hope someone can see what I can't.

Robert McGregor born 1830 Kinross-shire and Margaret Marshall b1822 in Polmont were married in Denny in 1854. This is what I know :
1861 in Denny with daughters Jean F McGregor 12 and Margaret 4.
1871 in Coneypark, Kilsyth with Jane age 20, Margaret 14, Robert 11, Janet 8 and Marion 4
Jean F and Jane could be the same person, but the ages of the children have been spot on throughout the other censuses :?

By 1881 Robert snr has vanished (allegedly to be a miner in Pennsylvania, but no evidence to substantiate), Margaret the mother has drowned in the canal and Robert jnr is head of the house in Banton, Kilsyth with sisters Jenet 19 and Marion 14. I know what happened to Robert jnr, Marion and Margaret after that, but Janet/Jenet and Jean/Jane are troubling me.

Jean F age 12 in 1861 would have been born about 1849 – 5 years before Robert & Margaret married. So I’m wondering if she could have been Margaret’s child by a previous marriage (or otherwise), given Margaret is quite a lot older than Robert. I have their proclamation of banns which don’t give anything about their marital condition - would they ever state if one party had previously been married? There is a marriage in 1848 in Polmont between Margaret Marshall and William Henderson, but I can’t see any children to them. Also wondered if the child could be a niece of Margaret (she had a sister Janet) but no joy there either. :?

And then Janet/Jenet who vanishes after 1881 – no marriage or death to be found. To complicate things, Robert jnr married a Janet (Paterson) of about the same age as his sister and I’ve lost count of the times I’ve thought I’d cracked it only to find it’s the wife and not the sister. :roll:

I’ve concentrated the searches in Stirlingshire, though Coneypark is very near the Stirlingshire/Dunbartonshire boundary at Cumbernauld so I guess Jean/Jane could have married someone from across the border. Any ideas would be more than welcome. :wink:

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

JustJean
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Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:25 pm

Hi pinkshoes

I'm sure you've probably looked for them on the 1851 census but you didn't mention it.......

Where was Margaret Marshall?
Did she have a daughter?

Best wishes
Jean

pinkshoes
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Post by pinkshoes » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:53 pm

Hi Jean

I've been looking at the 1851 census on and off but I haven't pinned her yet. I had hoped to find her in Polmont where she was born, but alas. The other best guess was Denny where she married, and there are one or two possibles but I have nothing to allow me to plump for one over any other. No idea if her parents would still be alive by then - I estimate they'd be born somewhere about 1793-98 but apart from knowing ( :roll: ) they were John Marshall and Elisabeth Bruce they are so far an unknown quantity. More likely Margaret would be off being a Dom Serv or somesuch by that time anyway.

In 1851 there are 11 Margaret Marshall's in Stirlingshire aged 25 - 30. From her baptism record she'd have been 29 in 1851, but she consistently knocks 4 years off her age, perhaps because she was a fair bit older than her husband Robert. Of the 11, the likeliest looking ones are Denny, one age 25 and one age 26, Dunipace again one 25 and one 26 - Dunipace is a stone's throw from Denny - and a couple in Falkirk (near where she was born), 1 age 27 and one age 28. I can't pin a daughter Jane/Jean to any of them though soI think I'll have to bite the bullet and look at them all.

Of course if she was married before, she'd not be Marshall anyway :? so I may be up a gum tree.

I remember now why I put it away in a corner :)

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

JustJean
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:14 am

Hi pinkshoes

Wow this one is a cruel one. Could you find any more common surname in Stirling to work on ?...I mean...C'mon here.... :roll:

I've no reason to give you hope but there is a nice looking entry in 1851 in Denny....

There is a widowed Margaret Marshall age 26 pauper dressmaker born Stirling Falkirk (I know I know...it's not Polmont!) She has two daughters. One age 5 named Betsy and one age 1 named Jean. Both born Denny.

What to do at this point I hivnae clue! It's probably just wishful thinking. I even had a look for a likely aged Betsy working as a servant or domestic in 1861 but only found one possible 16 year old Elisabeth In Falkirk.... except this one was born Stirling, Shieldhill..... :(

Yup...time to put it back on the shelf.....

Best wishes anyway :D
Jean

pinkshoes
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Location: Yorkshire

Post by pinkshoes » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:12 pm

Aw Naw! Jean - you were my best hope! :lol: Still, if you're throwin in the tow'l, mibbe ah'm no' sich a numpty efter a' :D Thanks for trying!

I wonder if Margaret in Denny with Betsy & Jean is her though - her mother was Elisabeth, so maybe Betsy - though I've never hear'tello' her in context.

I think I'll just back off this one till my next trip to Edinburgh - better be a long one! Trouble is something like this is soooooo time-consuming it'll probably never get done - always better fish to fry at NRH, and I've spent a fair bit of time searching for Jane/Jean/Janet/Jenet on earlier visits.

Right, whit'll ah be at noo ....

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:06 pm

Hello, Pinkshoes,
pinkshoes wrote:Right, whit'll ah be at noo ....
Well, how about taking this in another direction for a bit? Could this be your Robert?

Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s Record
Name:Robert McGregor
Year:1878
Place:Philadelphia
Source Publication Code:9302
Primary Immigrant:McGregor, Robert
Annotation:Called Section II, Alphabetical Index of Naturalization Records, 1794-1880, Maritime Records, Port of Philadelphia. Entries include names of applicants, countries of former allegiance, courts of record, and declaration dates. Reproduced from typewritten m
Source Bibliography:
UNITED STATES, WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION. Index to Records of Aliens' Declarations of Intention and/or Oaths of Allegiance, 1789-1880, in United States Circuit Court, United States District Court, Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, Quarter Sessions Court, Court of Common Pleas, Philadelphia. Compiled by W.P.A., Project No. 20837. [Harrisburg:] Pennsylvania Historical Commission, [1940]. 25 vols. in 11. Vol. 7. Letter M, pp. 1-350; vol. 8. Letter M, pp. 351-674.
Page:334

And when did Margaret drown?
The Robert below in 1880 is married to Agness, but there are marks in the "married in census year" column for both of them so it looks as though they are newlyweds. He fibbed a bit on his age, but that is nothing new (at least for my family)!

1880, Hamilton Township, Tioga County, Pennsylvania
Mcgreagor Robert, 46, miner, born in Scotland
--- Agness, 36, Wife, born in Scotland

Unfortunately, I can't find anything more on these people... they have vanished by 1900.

Regards,
Sarah

pinkshoes
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Post by pinkshoes » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:11 pm

Ah now Sarah - that's looking interesting :D And mibbe puts me back in the numpty category! I've seen that entry (or another one heckuva like it) and set it aside because of the wife. However, in my favour I haven't seen the census entry, so the newlyweds bit puts a new slant on things. Because sure enough, Margaret drowned in January 1877 - plenty time to get another wife lined up and away to dig for coal in USA.

Agness was born in Scotland, but they obviously married in US - if it's him, I wonder if they "knew" each other before they sailed off into the sunset. Is that maybe why Margaret ended up in the canal (bless her). Maybe the rest of the family went bonkers about it all, Robert the son and his sisters moved 5 miles up the road to get away from him then Robert Snr and Agness decided to take the opportunity to start a new life. Oh yes, I can spin them :!:

Robert's age is out by 4 years, but hey Agness is 10 years younger, so maybe understandable. Also I seem to remember the emigration thing I looked at had him younger too (don't see any age on your information), but that would stand to reason - maybe his real age would have been an obstacle to going to Pennsylvania. Robert hadn't worked in the mines all his life - he was a country lad brought up in Kinross and worked on the farms (was still doing that in 1861). 1871 he's in the mine, but might only just have had a career change, maybe not long enough to be worn done.

Vanishing by 1900 could ring true as well. The story of him going to Pennsylvania also had a vague reference to him being involved in a mining accident, but no information as to whether he'd survived.

So it's looking pretty feasible so far.

Well done that wummin :D

Thanks ever so much Sarah, lots to think about now.

Now then, who was Agness! :-k

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:29 pm

Hi Pinkshoes,
You've probably noticed that there is a Robert McGregor who married an Agnes in Kilsyth in 1879... Just got that by playing with the search on SP and have no idea of the details. The 1879 date seems to clash with the 1878 immigration, though. So maybe that wasn't your Robert's immigration record-- if it was indeed him in 1880. I checked and there is no Agnes arriving with the 1878 Robert in Philadelphia.

Of course, they could have been married in Pennsylvania :-k

Look forward to seeing what you come up with!
Sarah

pinkshoes
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Post by pinkshoes » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:59 pm

Should've known - 'sno that simple, pal. :(

Looking back at the info I have on the emigration thing - apparently he was last heard of in 1875 in Pennsylvania where he worked as a coal miner, and says it's know he was involved in a mining accident. Loose record found on him there in 1878.

Sooo disnae look like its the right emigration - could still be his census record though in 1880, if he did survive the accident.

Onward, ever onward ...

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

JustJean
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:00 pm

Ok....I can't stay silent any longer....I think you'd better get over to Kilsyth and check out the 1879 MC. :shock: He's a 46 year old widowed miner and she's 36. Again...no promises but darned if it doesn't fit this story that's being built bit by bit.....

Best wishes
Jean

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