Glasgow Bookbinder - Missing in Action.....

[scooter]

Good morning,

Spurred on by the sage advice from I received in the 'Emerald Isle' section of the forum, I thought I'd throw the following into the mix to see if anyone had any thoughts that might help me scale a four year old wall.

John Wishart (bmd details unknown) - a Bookbinder, married to Helen Shaw (b. ~1797,Glasgow - 1872, Kirkcaldy) daughter of Alexander Shaw, a Blacksmith, and Helen Law. Known children: Alexander Wishart (~1815, Glasgow - 1888, Kirkcaldy), Margaret Wishart (1819, Glasgow - ) and Helen Wishart (~1833 - 1858, Kirkcaldy).

I have no further info on John Wishart and to date only know of his existence through Margaret Wishart's OPR birth record, Helen & Alexander Wishart's DC's and Helen Shaw's DC. John appears to have died before 1855 (at least 1858).

Alexander Wishart married an Anne Leslie in 1840, Abbotshall, Fife and I have a pretty complete set of records for him and his descendants from then until the present day. The period between 1815 and 1840 is a bit of a mystery. I have no idea what happened to his sister Margaret, and when and where his sister Helen was born. The gap between 1819 and 1833 suggests that there were probably more siblings.

Helen married a man named Marshall (not the chap who married a Helen Wishart in Dundee during 1856) although I don't know his first name, and died of secondary siphilis (1 year) The informant was her brother Alexander. Would the nature of her illness suggest that she might not have been local to the area and perhaps was sent to be with her elder brother out of shame? Perhaps the fellow named Marshall 'turned her out'?

Helen (Shaw) Wishart makes a re-appearance on the 1871 census living on the High Street in Kirkcaldy and dies in the Combination Poorhouse a year later. Obviously I've checked the earlier census returns for the area (and surrounds) and can find no trace of her. In the hope that she was living back in Glasgow I looked at the 1851 indexes for the whole of Lanarkshire, but without success. I've not looked at 1841 yet, but have also looked in 1851: Ayrshire, Kinross, Dumfries, Dunbartonshire, Renfrew & East Lothian and a large number of parishes in Fife and Midlothian.

I'm sure the clue to all this will be through the earlier census returns. It would be great to find Helen and John living together, with perhaps a few other children. If anyone has any moments of inspiration I'd be eternally grateful.

Yours in the wilderness,

Scott

[DavidWW]

Scott

Unless someone can come up with another suggestion, - not impossible, - it may be the case that you'll need to be patient until the 1861, 1851 and 1841 census indexes and digitised images come on line.

1861, or the previous intended order may be reversed with 1841 coming first, in the not too distant future; with 1841 or 1861 not too long after that, and, fingers crossed, 1851 by the end of the year, maybe start of 2006.

Davie

[scooter]

Hi David,

Yes, my gut feeling all along has been that this is the most straightforward solution. The shifting goalposts at SP in terms of release dates have been very frustrating!

Which ever comes first, it will be a help....

Best,

Scott

[Jack]

Hi Scott,

Just to say i can't see any family to suit in Glasgow or Renfrewshire 1841. So as Davie remarked - it looks like a wait for the online all Scotland to appear.

But meantime you could maybe keep your eye on how the FreeCen project is progressing - http://www.users.waitrose.com/~census/

Jack

[scooter]

Hi Jack,

Thanks for taking a peek for me. Yes, I've been keeping a close eye on the folk at FreeCEN. I've also started hunting around for Wisharts south of the border in 1851 - just in case! Luckily most of England and Wales for that year seems to be indexed and a trip to Islington isn't as lengthy as a trip to Edinburgh!

Many thanks,

Scott

[Malcolm]

Scooter,I don't mean to over simplify things here but there is a difference between what is available on-line and what is available generally at say, family history centres of central provincial libraries.
When I wanted details from the 1851 and 1841 census returns for a place near Dunfermline I telephoned the Family History department of Dunfermline library with an order and they ran copies off for me and sent them on in the post with an invoice. I found them so easy to deal with and incredibly helpful, not to say inexpensive
As I wanted to survey the whole village, I may have made things easy for them by asking for every page in each census. I have requested newspaper articles in the same way. From my limited experience in these matters I think you should be able to do the same.
Can I suggest therefore, that you telephone the Family History Centre local to your family seat, and ask them to do something for you. Another option is to make contact with the local Family History Society which I have also used to do searches for me and, who I believe have the same film archives as the libraries.
Why wait for Scotlands people, it could be eons yet before the stuff you want comes on-line.
Malcolm Morris

[DavidWW]

....snipped...........Why wait for Scotlands people, it could be eons yet before the stuff you want comes on-line.
Malcolm Morris

My comment was made on the basis that Scott has already checked locally, and elsewhere, with no success, so that he has no fixed place to look in Scotland.

The only relvant comment missing from my original post, but not generally applicable 1861 and 1841, mostly 1851, is to check with the FHSs on a county level basis, but be aware that the great majority of these indexes are extremely "thin", i.e. name and age only, sometimes place of birth.

It was never my intention for my post to be interpreted as suggesting that the first place to look should be scotlandspeople.gov.uk

See my separate post in the Censuses forum which gives a general guide on census searching in Scotland

"Eons" it will not be, with 1861 and 1841 by the end of the year, but order uncertain. The simple reason for the uncertainty on the order is that many members of ScotlandsPeople in the USA have lobbied for 1841 as the next release. If researchers elsewhere want to stick with 1861 they'd better get their comments forms in quickly.

Both 1841 and 1861 are at exactly the same stage, - digistisation complete, indexing complete but final QC to be completed, - so that all that remains after that is for the data to be transferred to ScotlandonLine, checked on a test site, and uploaded to the main site for release.

Davie

Interrupted by need to deliver guid lady to the bus station.........

[scooter]

Hi Malcolm,

Good to hear from you. As David has just pointed out, I have no exact idea of where to look, otherwise I suspect I may have cracked this a while ago. Having tried all the obvious places I'm now resigned to blanket coverage. I have had some very useful help from several Scottish family history societies, and as a member of the Tay Valley FHS I'm hoping to tap their resources when I troop north at the end of next month.

I've also trawled through miles of film at the LDS here in London (got it down to about an hour forty-five per roll!) and likewise they've been very helpful ordering things in for me. As it stands at the moment, I reckon I'll end up with a complete set of returns for the Wishart surname in the 1851 UK census!

I'm only 33 so I've plenty of time to solve the mystery.

Thanks again for your suggestions,

Scott

[scooter]

Two months on and I think I've made some progress in getting a foothold on my brick wall - primarily thanks to the very helpful folk at the Tay Valley Family History Society in Dundee. I spent a useful day at their research centre in late May and have started to unravel a story that involves lunacy, fighting in the Indian Mutiny and a rather lethal bout of syphilis.

Anyway, if anyone out there has access to the 1841 census index to Barony I'd be overwhelmingly grateful if they could let me know if there are any Wisharts listed.

Muchos Gracias,

Scott