Searching for Moses Brownlee (brownlie).....

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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constancelee121
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Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Searching for Moses Brownlee (brownlie).....

Post by constancelee121 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:38 pm

I am searching for the parent's of Moses Brownlee. I have found his death certificate and marriage info. but can't find anything on who his parents were. He was born about 1819, in Cambuslane, Eastern, Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland, died 18 Sep 1885, Eastern District, Old Monkland, Lanark county, Scotland, and was married 3 Jul 1841, to Agnes Methven. I have tried Scotland's people website with no success. Any help or clues would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Connie

emanday
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Post by emanday » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:56 pm

Hi Connie,

Did he die in 19 Feb 1885?
[b]Mary[/b]
A cat leaves pawprints on your heart
McDonald or MacDonald (some couldn't make up their mind!), Bonner, Crichton, McKillop, Campbell, Cameron, Gitrig (+other spellings), Clark, Sloan, Stewart, McCutcheon, Ireland (the surname)

Russell
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Post by Russell » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:19 pm

Hi Connie

Welcome to TalkingScot. I hope we can give you appropriate pointers in locating your Scottish ancestors.

You have started off with a difficult one though. Although the name Brownlie is found in Cambuslang and Old Monkland, and the name Moses
Shows up on the IGI, which is where I presume you found him, There are no entries for a birth in either parish in the Old Parish records.
All of the IGI entries are submissions - not extracts from the original records. In other words they are educated guesses about dates and places so they could be wildly inaccurate.
The OPR records which are available on Scotlandspeople are almost exclusively from the Established Church of Scotland. There are various other denominations who have not submitted their records for posterity. If Moses and family were part of a minority church their Births and Marriages may not be available on-line.
At that time registering a birth was not compulsary and, at times, cost more than some could afford, so lots of Births were never recorded.
Not all of the Old Parish registers have survived to be digitised so there are gaps in the records for some parishes.
Before 1855 many records only include the name of the father so it can be more difficult to track and find both parents. :(

However, its not all negative. Many searchers have been helped through other sources which are available and we specialise in breaking down brick walls :D :D
Monumental Inscriptions and Poor Law applications have helped many folk find their ancestors and sometimes you may come across a distant relative who has found some of those you are still seeking. I found a third cousin I didn't know I had yesterday :D

If you have any more information on Moses and Agnes you could post up it would help

Russell
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
McGilvray(spelt 26 different ways)
Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny

nelmit
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Searching for Moses Brownlee (brownlie)

Post by nelmit » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:54 pm

constancelee121 wrote:I am searching for the parent's of Moses Brownlee. I have found his death certificate and marriage info. but can't find anything on who his parents were. He was born about 1819, in Cambuslane, Eastern, Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland, died 18 Sep 1885, Eastern District, Old Monkland, Lanark county, Scotland, and was married 3 Jul 1841, to Agnes Methven. I have tried Scotland's people website with no success. Any help or clues would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Connie
Hello Connie,

Have you looked at the 20 year old Moses Brownlie living in Old Monkland in the 1841 census to see who he living with?

Does the death certificate not show parents names?

Regards,
Annette M

constancelee121
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Moses Brownlie

Post by constancelee121 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:54 pm

I have a listing of his death from 1885 deaths in the Eastern district of Old Monkland in the County of Lanark on page 47 line 141 as that his death was Sept. 18, 1885, that he was 71 years old, parentage unknown. On the 1841 census he is listed as a 20 year old laboror and doesn't seem to be living with any relitives.

Thanks so much for all of you trying to help me with this though.

Connie

emanday
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Post by emanday » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:56 pm

The reason I asked about the 1885 year of death is this...

Please bear in mind that these seem to be all submitted entries on IGI, but they might give you a few clues...

Moses Brownlee born 5 Sept 1802, Strathaven, Lanark
Death: 19 Feb 1885

Father: Alexander Brownlee
Mother: Margaret R Smith

Same Parents...

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 14

1. JAMES BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Death: Before 1900
2. JAMES BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 03 FEB 1800 Torfoot, Avondale, Lanark, Scotland
3. MOSES BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 05 SEP 1802 Strathaven, Lanark, Scotland
4. JOHN BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 18 APR 1811 Strathaven, Lanark, Scotland
5. MOSES BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Death: Before 1902
6. JOHN BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Death: Before 1911
7. AGNES C. BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Death: Before 1917
8. AGNES C. BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1817 Strathaven, Lanark, Scotland
9. Moses Brownlee - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 05 SEP 1802 Strathaven, Lanark, Scotland
10. Moses Brownlee - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Death: 19 FEB 1885
11. JANET BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: About 1804 , , Scotland
12. MARGARET R. BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1809 , , Scotland
13. JANET BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Death: Before 1904
14. MARGARET R. BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Death: Before 1909

This is the list of results for Alexander and Margaret (i.e. Birth & Marriage)

ALEXANDER BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 18 MAY 1774 Torfoot, Avondale, Lanark, Scotland
ALEXANDER BROWNLIE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 12 DEC 1799 Loudoun, Ayr, Scotland
ALEXANDER BROWNLIE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 14 DEC 1799 Avondale, Lanark, Scotland (probably two entries because banns read in each parish)
ALEXANDER BROWNLEE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Death: Before 1874

Margaret SMITH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1779 <Torfoot, Strathaven, Lanark, Scotland>
Margaret SMITH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Death: 13 FEB 1845
MARGARET SMITH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Death: Before 1879
MARGARET SMITH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1779 Torfoot, Avondale, Lanark, Scotland
[b]Mary[/b]
A cat leaves pawprints on your heart
McDonald or MacDonald (some couldn't make up their mind!), Bonner, Crichton, McKillop, Campbell, Cameron, Gitrig (+other spellings), Clark, Sloan, Stewart, McCutcheon, Ireland (the surname)

constancelee121
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Brownlee, Brownlie

Post by constancelee121 » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:50 pm

Thanks for your help Mary. That probably is what I am looking for. I will try to do what I can to verify that info.

You guys rock! I have listed this question on a bunch of other sites and have gotten no responses. Thanks for all your help and ideas! :D

Russell
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Location: Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire
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Post by Russell » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:58 pm

Hi Connie
A friend of mine has been working on your problem but was not able to post directly to you so they got in touch with me with some ideas.
I'm worried that Connie might well be being led astray by being referred to all those submitted entries in the IGI about an Alexander BROWNLIE and Margaret SMITH who had children including a Moses.
That is a *different* Moses BROWNLIE from the one whose death she has posted about!
That IGI Moses is a much older man (born ca 1802) than Connie's Moses (born ca 1824 - from death age).
Strangely, the IGI Moses died in the same year (1885) as Connie's Moses. However, the IGI Moses didn't die in Cambuslang - he died in Ohio in the USA!
His parents, Alexander BROWNLIE and Margaret SMITH also died in Ohio (as per the submitted entries).
Their gravestone inscription (in Ohio) is detailed at the following site:
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BR ... 1014870126
That IGI Moses is in the US 1880 census on FamilySearch in Ohio aged 77, a widowed farmer born in Scotland, in the household of his son Smith BROWNLEE.
As it happens, I see that Connie's location is given as Ohio! Perhaps she does want that older Moses?? Whatever, it does seem that one or the other is a red herring!
Anyway - back to the Moses BROWNLIE who died in Old Monkland in 1885.
All we now seem to have for that Moses is as follows:
1. As a labourer aged 20 in Old Monkland in the 1841 census (assuming that's the same Moses as in points 2 & 3)
2. Marrying Agnes METHVEN in July 1841 (OPR entries in the IGI for Old Monkland and for Dunfermline)
3. Dying in 1885 in Old Monkland.
It would be good if Connie would post:
* the full details of the 1841census entry including the rest of the household
* the full details of the death certificate
One never knows when there might be something which would be a clue.
If she does want to follow up on the Old Monkland Moses, my suggestion would be that she also:
a) downloads the OPR marriage entries just in case
b) downloads the death cert for Agnes just in case
(there's just one record on SP for the death of an Agnes BROWNL*, other name METHVEN. Refining the parameters shows that this is Agnes BROWNLIE, age 56, died in 1869 in Old Monkland).
c) finds Moses in all the other relevant censuses - 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 - just in case.
Keep in mind that submitted IGI entries are conclusions drawn by LDS members and are not always accurate.
Following the suggestions offered would allow you to check factual evidence from the actual registers and census returns before you race off, possibly, down the wrong trail.
Sometimes negative evidence can be as valuable as positive results since it can rule out a line where there conflicting possibilities.

Sorry to throw a late spanner in the works but we were worried that you might go down the wrong route.

Russell
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
McGilvray(spelt 26 different ways)
Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny

nelmit
Posts: 3978
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Moses Brownlee

Post by nelmit » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:16 pm

I too thought the other Moses was wrong as Connie stated he was born in Cambuslang.

I'm sure Connie has this 1881 census and that is why she states his place of birth is Cambuslane.

Dwelling: Torrance Bu
Census Place: Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203701 GRO Ref Volume 652-3 EnumDist 6 Page 33
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Alexander GRAHAM M 66 M Carmichael, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Caster
Flora GRAHAM M 66 F Carmichael, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Moses BROWNLEE 67 M Cambuslane, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Other

Regards,
Annette M

Russell
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire
Contact:

Post by Russell » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:31 pm

Hi Annette

I would agree with you.

I think Connie needs to post up all the information she has about him whether census or certificate to see if there is the merest additional clue to help us pin him down.

IGI is helpful but should only be trusted so far. We found 7 additional children to a couple when IGI only came up with two. This was all down to transcription problems (NOT errors) which local knowledge of places and dialects would have identified and which the IGI search engine failed to pick up.

Russell
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
McGilvray(spelt 26 different ways)
Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny

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