Where did Nellie go?

[Brenda]

I'm really confused and would appreciate some help. I'm searching for my husband's grandmother, Helen Loag .
Her marriage certificate [to Robert McCracken, Glasgow 10th June 1910 ] states, age 20, daughter of Samuel Loag & Mary-Ann Muir Murray.

There is only one birth record on SP for that time: July 28th 1890 .NELLIE CAW /LOAG /or SMITH!
Mother Mary Martin Loag , wife of William Smith, brass finisher, HOWEVER, she declares that he is NOT the father of the child and that she has had no communication with him since May 1889!

I downloaded the marriage cert , 9th July 1883... William Smith age 25, Mary Loag , age 18, daughter of Samuel Loag & Mary Caw , previously Loag, [she got remarried to Hugh Barclay Caw after Samuel died.] Her maiden name was Martin.

Then it gets really confusing, the 1891 census shows Nellie Loag ,age 8 months, [ born Glasgow ] living with Samuel Loag & Mary-Ann Loag [ nee Murray] in Cadder . Samuel is Mary''s brother.

Do you think that as the marriage didn't work out she gave her daughter Nellie/Helen to them to raise?

I know it's a long shot but I just can't work it all out.

[DavidWW]

Fairly clear what's happened here...........

1883, William SMITH marries Mary LOAG, daughter of Samuel LOAG, ron work Labourer and Mary CAW, previously LOAG, MS MARTIN.

At some point in 1889, or later, Mary splits from William SMITH.

Then, in 1890, has wee Nellie Caw LOAG or SMITH, with the form of wording regarding William SMITH not being the father as above.

Brother Samuel has married in 1888, so where else to plank the child but with him and his wife Mary; and wee Nellie grows up believing that Samuel and Mary are her parents.

From her death register entry, Mary SMITH MS LOAG never remarried.

But where was Helen/Nellie in 1891 ?, - not with Samuel and Mary ...........

David

[puffin]

For the 1891 census try looking for Nellie with her grandparents, (either maternal or paternal).

That is where a similar relative of mine is found in both 1871 ( father aged 19 still present) and 1881 (father no longer present as now married and with three legit. children) censuses, and having been born in 1869/70.

Puffin

[Brenda]

Hi David ,

I was thinking along the same lines as you, but wanted to be sure,

Puffin, thanks for your suggestion. As mentioned in my first post I found Nellie in the 1891 census with Samuel Loag and his wife, [Mary-Ann Muir MurrayI]

Take care

Brenda

[nelmit]

Hi Brenda,

I had a wee look at the poorhouse applications at The Mitchell today but couldn't throw any light on Nellie. I tried all sorts of name permutations.

I found one for a Mary Martin Caw born 12th May 1888, daughter of Jeanie Caw and grand daughter of Hugh Caw.

I thought I had landed lucky with a Mary Ann Martin Logue (how's that for coincidence) bu she was married to a John Logue and lots of children but no Helen/Nellie.

If you are interested in either of these I will post them.

Kind regards,
Annette M

[Brenda]

Hi Annette

I'm not sure about the Mary Martin Caw you found, could be Hugh Caw's sister's child? Or his daughter's from his first marriage?

I'm getting so frustrated and annoyed with myself. Seem to be taking one step forward then two backwards most of the time.

Who would have thought one question from my wee grand daughter,
" Grandma, where did you and Grandad come from in Scotland?" would start all this.

[SarahND]

Hello all,
I went back over my copious Loag notes from over a month ago and there is something fishy going on... Nellie's surname varies quite a bit, as does her relationship to the head of household. I had thought before that she was the daughter of Mary Martin and Hugh Caw, but that latest marriage document messes up that theory.

But where was Helen/Nellie in 1891 ?, - not with Samuel and Mary ...........

David,
Nellie was with Samuel and Mary in 1891:

1891
Gartsherrie Cottages
Cadder Eastern District, Lanarkshire
Samuel Loag, 22, Head, born Glasgow, Grocer's Vanman
Mary Loag, 24, Wife, born Gourock, Renfrew
Nellie Loag, Daur, 8 Mo, born Glasgow

Did you mean 1901? In which case, she was with the woman who is supposed to be her mother and called "Helen Caw":shock:

1901
10 Maxwell St, Eastwood, Pollokshaws, Renfrewshire
M Smith, 36, Head, born Glasgow, Confection Shopkeeper
David Smith, 16, Son, born Ns, Fruiterer Clerk
Mary Caw, 12, Step Daur, born Ns, Scholar
Helen Caw, 10, Step Daur, born Ns (I guess this means unknown), Scholar

...which led me to believe before that she was the daughter of Mary Martin and Hugh Caw-- and why is she called the "step-daughter"?

The Mary Caw, age 12, was enumerated as the daughter of Hugh and Mary Martin in 1891. But then, so were David and William, who are called Smith in later censuses...

1891
Moodiesburn, Cadder Eastern District, Lanarkshire
Hugh B Caw, 40, Head, born Perth, Perthshire, Railway Storesman
Mary Caw, 47, Wife, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Railway Storesman's Wife
David Caw, 6, Son, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
William Caw, 4, Son, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary M Caw, 2, Daur, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Loag, 26, Step Dr, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire

David Smith is the son of Mary Loag and William Smith, one supposes. There is another Smith boy, William (called William Caw above), who is enumerated as Hugh Caw's grandson in 1901:

1901
Hugh B Caw, 50, Head, born Perth, Railway Stores Man
William Smith, 14, Grandson, born Glasgow, Railway Weighers Assistant 

I am still confused whose daughter Nellie is. If, as it now appears from the marriage to William Smith, it was Mary Martin Loag who was her mother, not Mary Martin the former wife of Samuel Loag, then the father is impossible to name. Unless... he was a relative of Hugh Caw (let's hope not Hugh himself, being her stepfather) and thus the name Caw given to Nellie at her birth. Any idea where else one could look to untangle this? I'm hoping there is something in the poor relief application that Annette found.

Annette,
I think the poorhouse application for Mary Martin Caw could be important. She is possibly the one in the 1891 census given above, supposed to be the daughter of Hugh and Mary Martin. Not sure who Jeanie Caw was... but hope the application might shed some light! This family is very confusing-- Brenda and I were going around in circles with them over a month ago. I, for one, would be very interested to see what the poorhouse application says!

All the best,
Sarah

[nelmit]

Hi Sarah,

The only reason I didn't post the poorhouse application is that it doesn't throw any light on Helen/Nellie.

What it does tell you though will make sense in regard to Mary M Caw.

1891
Moodiesburn, Cadder Eastern District, Lanarkshire
Hugh B Caw, 40, Head, born Perth, Perthshire, Railway Storesman
Mary Caw, 47, Wife, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Railway Storesman's Wife
David Caw, 6, Son, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
William Caw, 4, Son, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary M Caw, 2, Daur, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Loag, 26, Step Dr, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire

Poorhouse Application -

Date of application 5/9/07

Mary Martin Caw born 12/5/88 at 193 Castle St illegitimate daughter of Jane Caw entry 840 /1888 st Rollox
516 Garbraid St /Robertson
19 single
Parents Hugh Caw and Jeanie Martin (scored out and replaced with) illegitimate of Jeanie Caw
Brought up by grandfather Hugh Caw who works on Cal Railway (Stores) who died 2 years last April in Crosshill.
William born Eastern District Hospital 13/2/08
Peter 21/7/1911 15 Kenmore St Shettleston
Father Peter Stevenson.
Applies for admission pregnant first time 4 months gone to Hugh Quinn a ticket collector Maryhill Station.

As far as I can work out Helen/Nellie is the grand daughter of Mary Martin and Samuel Loag snr and Mary is the illegitimate grand daughter of Hugh Caw and ????
All very complicated but I will look again at The Mitchell for other applications although I don't hold out much hope.

Kind regards,
Annette M

[Brenda]

Thanks to everyone fro trying to help me with this.
In desperation I wrote to my husband'older brother in Scotland, his memory isn't too good but this is what he said..

After Samuel Loag's death, Grannie Loag, [ Mary Ann Muir Murray ] went back to nursing...... She was a matron in Canada before retiring to Glasgow. Her daughter HELEN was brought up by an aunt in Helensburgh."

I still can't find any birth record for Helen /Nellie showing Samuel & Mary Ann Muir Murray as her parents, only the one for Mary Martin Loag wife of William Smith.?

[nelmit]

Thanks to everyone fro trying to help me with this.
In desperation I wrote to my husband'older brother in Scotland, his memory isn't too good but this is what he said..

After Samuel Loag's death, Grannie Loag, [ Mary Ann Muir Murray ] went back to nursing...... She was a matron in Canada before retiring to Glasgow. Her daughter HELEN was brought up by an aunt in Helensburgh."

I still can't find any birth record for Helen /Nellie showing Samuel & Mary Ann Muir Murray as her parents, only the one for Mary Martin Loag wife of William Smith.?

Hello Brenda,

Have you looked on SP at the Helen Logue born in 1889?

Regards,
Annette M