Hello Bruce,
Hopefully I haven't missed it but who did Hugh give as his parents names when he married Elspeth?
Regards,
Annette M
finlayson
Moderator: Global Moderators
Hi folks
Ok it's time to throw out all the little bits I've accumulated and see if anyone has any better luck fitting them into a cohesive product than I have.
I like the family Anne found in 1861 and I feel like her that Hugh has to fit there somehow but how??
Start with the Hugh that we know. It's 1881 and he's a boarder. He marries a few weeks later and states his parents are both deceased and father was John Finlayson ploughman and Flora Finlayson mn Cameron. He uses the name Flora again for his own daughter so there must be something to it.
In 1871 we can't find Hugh. Using the age given in 1881 he'd be born about 1862 so if he was missed off this census for some reason then he might not have been born in 1861 yet. So now let's look for those parents.
I've not found a single convincing John Finlayson anywhere that fits. Anne meanwhile in searching for a Flora came up with household above containing a Bell and John and James and then a Christina Stewart and Margaret Simpson. What a hodge podge!! So we have a confirmation that James Finlayson Cameron was registerd illegitimate by his mother "Bell" Cameron and no sign of a father. That adds quite a bit of creedence to the liklihood that John Finlayson Cameron was her's too and probably fathered by the same chap and probably born just prior tro 1855 as I ain't finding him. Digging deeper I've found this family in 1851 as below:
Name: Hugh Cameron
Age: 63
Estimated birth year: abt 1788
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name: Bell
Gender: Male
Where born: Ranack, Perthshire
Parish Number: 387
Civil parish: Perth
County: Perthshire
Address: Leonard Street
Occupation: Labourer
Household Members: Name Age
Bell Cameron 25 wife
Flara Cameron 28 (Flora) dau
Hugh Cameron 63 head
Margret B Sinpson 1 visitor
and this one troubles me greatly. It says that Bell is the wife of Hugh whose more than old enough to be her daddy. The fact that Margret is called a visitor though makes me think that maybe Hugh and Bell are married and Bell is the mother to Margret so that she not really any relation to Hugh. I've also considerd that maybe Bell is really Hugh's dau like Flora is or her age is recorded incorrectly and she is the wife we find in 1841.....
I think this is them based on same street...age works for Hugh and FLora, but...........
Name: Hugh Cameron
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Civil parish: Perth
County: Perthshire
Address: East Side Leonard St
Occupation: Lab
Parish Number: 387
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elisabeth Cameron 10
Flora Cameron 15
Hugh Cameron 50
Isabel Cameron 50
Kathy Cameron 20
Duncan Robertson 2
With the above information it's a snap to find the IGI births that pretty much confirm this is indeed Hugh Cameron and Isabell Cameron mn Cameron and family....
Father: Hugh Cameron, Mother: Isabel Cameron
1. ELIZABETH CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 11 APR 1829 Perth, Perth, Scotland
2. ISABELL CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 11 MAR 1826 Perth, Perth, Scotland
3. JOHN CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 09 NOV 1823 Perth, Perth, Scotland
4. JANET CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 13 AUG 1821 Fortingall, Perth, Scotland
5. DUNCAN CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 14 MAR 1814 Fortingall, Perth, Scotland
6. CATHARINE CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 FEB 1816 Fortingall, Perth, Scotland
7. MARY CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 17 MAY 1812 Fortingall, Perth, Scotland
but very sadly we see that they don't have a Flora listed...but there is one living with them in 1841!!! Is she a daughter that didn't get registered? Hmmmmmmm.......I also don't find a death for Isabel Cameron Cameron after 1855 sooooo maybe she did die before 1855.
Ok...so let's look down another avenue now. Go back to the 1861 family posted by Anne and let's check out this Christina Stewart by abt 1853. Of course no BC is found...but by golly there is a marriage of Flora Cameron and Alexander Stewart in Perth in 1852!!!! The OPR image confirms that Flora is the dau of Hugh Cameron. So it looks like Christina might be the legitimate daughter of this marriage. I can't find Alexander though after 1852 and wonder if he died....or ran off......or what. I don't find any births to them from the IGI and I don't find Flora and Christina in 1871......UNLESS......Flora somehow morphs into an Ann.......
I know it's ludicrous but the only ones on ancestry that fit the ages and born in Perth profile...(both babies are illegitimate btw to Christina which certainly fits this family profile too!!)
Name: Ann Stewart
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Perth, Perthshire
Registration Number: 282/3
Registration district: St Clement
Civil parish: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: 19 Hospital Wynd
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Stewart 11 mo grandson
Ann Stewart 48 head
Christina Stewart 19 dau
David Stewart 3 grandson
Ok...well that was conjecture on the last bit there. Let's now go look for a DC for Isabel Cameron that might account for why she's not found in 1871.....
and there in 1869 is one recorded in Perth with parents of Hugh Cameron (still living) and Isabella Cameron mn Cameron dec'd. She died of cancer and her sister Jessie Scotland from Dundee was informant. Hmmm....a quick follow up search for the death of Jessie Scotland some years later and it confirms that she was the dau of Hugh Cameron (now dec'd) and Isabella Cameron mn Cameron(dec'd). Now for the kicker....Jessie stated that her sister Isabella was the widow of a John Chapman, sailor! I'm not finding any marriage for them or any children to them but do wonder if maybe she messed up the Chapman and it should have been Simpson?????? Ok...I know I know I'm really grasping. But the death in 1869 would account for Isabel/Bell dropping out of sight after 1861 census.
What about the two Finlayson lads you ask? Welllll......got a theory on that too. What if? These two fellows in the Perth Poorhouse might be them??....stated deserted perhaps because their mother was dead........
Name: James Cameron
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relationship: Deserted
Gender: Male
Where born: Perth, Perthshire
Registration Number: 387/1
Registration district: Perth Burgh
Civil parish: Perth Burgh
County: Perthshire
Address: Tullylumb Parish Of Tibbermuri
Occupation: Scholar
Name: John Cameron
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relationship: Deserted
Gender: Male
Where born: Perth, Perthshire
Registration Number: 387/1
Registration district: Perth Burgh
Civil parish: Perth Burgh
County: Perthshire
Address: Tullylumb Parish Of Tibbermuri
Occupation: Scholar
ED: Perth Poorhouse
So where does Hugh come in to all this? Darned if I know!!! This family has just enough details to keep you circling. Maybe Hugh Finlayson grew up in the poorhouse and changed his name. Maybe he never really knew who was his mother and thought that Flora was.
I haven't found Margret Simpson either
I wish I it fell together I really do....
Best wishes
Jean
Ok it's time to throw out all the little bits I've accumulated and see if anyone has any better luck fitting them into a cohesive product than I have.
I like the family Anne found in 1861 and I feel like her that Hugh has to fit there somehow but how??
Start with the Hugh that we know. It's 1881 and he's a boarder. He marries a few weeks later and states his parents are both deceased and father was John Finlayson ploughman and Flora Finlayson mn Cameron. He uses the name Flora again for his own daughter so there must be something to it.
In 1871 we can't find Hugh. Using the age given in 1881 he'd be born about 1862 so if he was missed off this census for some reason then he might not have been born in 1861 yet. So now let's look for those parents.
I've not found a single convincing John Finlayson anywhere that fits. Anne meanwhile in searching for a Flora came up with household above containing a Bell and John and James and then a Christina Stewart and Margaret Simpson. What a hodge podge!! So we have a confirmation that James Finlayson Cameron was registerd illegitimate by his mother "Bell" Cameron and no sign of a father. That adds quite a bit of creedence to the liklihood that John Finlayson Cameron was her's too and probably fathered by the same chap and probably born just prior tro 1855 as I ain't finding him. Digging deeper I've found this family in 1851 as below:
Name: Hugh Cameron
Age: 63
Estimated birth year: abt 1788
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name: Bell
Gender: Male
Where born: Ranack, Perthshire
Parish Number: 387
Civil parish: Perth
County: Perthshire
Address: Leonard Street
Occupation: Labourer
Household Members: Name Age
Bell Cameron 25 wife
Flara Cameron 28 (Flora) dau
Hugh Cameron 63 head
Margret B Sinpson 1 visitor
and this one troubles me greatly. It says that Bell is the wife of Hugh whose more than old enough to be her daddy. The fact that Margret is called a visitor though makes me think that maybe Hugh and Bell are married and Bell is the mother to Margret so that she not really any relation to Hugh. I've also considerd that maybe Bell is really Hugh's dau like Flora is or her age is recorded incorrectly and she is the wife we find in 1841.....
I think this is them based on same street...age works for Hugh and FLora, but...........
Name: Hugh Cameron
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Civil parish: Perth
County: Perthshire
Address: East Side Leonard St
Occupation: Lab
Parish Number: 387
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elisabeth Cameron 10
Flora Cameron 15
Hugh Cameron 50
Isabel Cameron 50
Kathy Cameron 20
Duncan Robertson 2
With the above information it's a snap to find the IGI births that pretty much confirm this is indeed Hugh Cameron and Isabell Cameron mn Cameron and family....
Father: Hugh Cameron, Mother: Isabel Cameron
1. ELIZABETH CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 11 APR 1829 Perth, Perth, Scotland
2. ISABELL CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 11 MAR 1826 Perth, Perth, Scotland
3. JOHN CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 09 NOV 1823 Perth, Perth, Scotland
4. JANET CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 13 AUG 1821 Fortingall, Perth, Scotland
5. DUNCAN CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 14 MAR 1814 Fortingall, Perth, Scotland
6. CATHARINE CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 FEB 1816 Fortingall, Perth, Scotland
7. MARY CAMERON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 17 MAY 1812 Fortingall, Perth, Scotland
but very sadly we see that they don't have a Flora listed...but there is one living with them in 1841!!! Is she a daughter that didn't get registered? Hmmmmmmm.......I also don't find a death for Isabel Cameron Cameron after 1855 sooooo maybe she did die before 1855.
Ok...so let's look down another avenue now. Go back to the 1861 family posted by Anne and let's check out this Christina Stewart by abt 1853. Of course no BC is found...but by golly there is a marriage of Flora Cameron and Alexander Stewart in Perth in 1852!!!! The OPR image confirms that Flora is the dau of Hugh Cameron. So it looks like Christina might be the legitimate daughter of this marriage. I can't find Alexander though after 1852 and wonder if he died....or ran off......or what. I don't find any births to them from the IGI and I don't find Flora and Christina in 1871......UNLESS......Flora somehow morphs into an Ann.......
I know it's ludicrous but the only ones on ancestry that fit the ages and born in Perth profile...(both babies are illegitimate btw to Christina which certainly fits this family profile too!!)
Name: Ann Stewart
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Perth, Perthshire
Registration Number: 282/3
Registration district: St Clement
Civil parish: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: 19 Hospital Wynd
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Stewart 11 mo grandson
Ann Stewart 48 head
Christina Stewart 19 dau
David Stewart 3 grandson
Ok...well that was conjecture on the last bit there. Let's now go look for a DC for Isabel Cameron that might account for why she's not found in 1871.....
and there in 1869 is one recorded in Perth with parents of Hugh Cameron (still living) and Isabella Cameron mn Cameron dec'd. She died of cancer and her sister Jessie Scotland from Dundee was informant. Hmmm....a quick follow up search for the death of Jessie Scotland some years later and it confirms that she was the dau of Hugh Cameron (now dec'd) and Isabella Cameron mn Cameron(dec'd). Now for the kicker....Jessie stated that her sister Isabella was the widow of a John Chapman, sailor! I'm not finding any marriage for them or any children to them but do wonder if maybe she messed up the Chapman and it should have been Simpson?????? Ok...I know I know I'm really grasping. But the death in 1869 would account for Isabel/Bell dropping out of sight after 1861 census.
What about the two Finlayson lads you ask? Welllll......got a theory on that too. What if? These two fellows in the Perth Poorhouse might be them??....stated deserted perhaps because their mother was dead........
Name: James Cameron
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relationship: Deserted
Gender: Male
Where born: Perth, Perthshire
Registration Number: 387/1
Registration district: Perth Burgh
Civil parish: Perth Burgh
County: Perthshire
Address: Tullylumb Parish Of Tibbermuri
Occupation: Scholar
Name: John Cameron
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relationship: Deserted
Gender: Male
Where born: Perth, Perthshire
Registration Number: 387/1
Registration district: Perth Burgh
Civil parish: Perth Burgh
County: Perthshire
Address: Tullylumb Parish Of Tibbermuri
Occupation: Scholar
ED: Perth Poorhouse
So where does Hugh come in to all this? Darned if I know!!! This family has just enough details to keep you circling. Maybe Hugh Finlayson grew up in the poorhouse and changed his name. Maybe he never really knew who was his mother and thought that Flora was.
I haven't found Margret Simpson either
I wish I it fell together I really do....
Best wishes
Jean
Jean
I'm impressed. I got nowhere near that though I did find the dc of Isabel Cameron but kind of discounted it because of the Chapman. The boys could well be them. I'd wondered about the boys being in a poorhouse but could not find them. The age for John is quite a bit off.
Is this not just a knotty one?
Anne
I'm impressed. I got nowhere near that though I did find the dc of Isabel Cameron but kind of discounted it because of the Chapman. The boys could well be them. I'd wondered about the boys being in a poorhouse but could not find them. The age for John is quite a bit off.
Is this not just a knotty one?
Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
Hi All
I would seem to have opened a right mish mash with this family.
Hugh Finlayson on his marriage gave his mothers name as flora.
He died 1st october 1929 aged 69 at Quarry cottages Pitroddie and his son Hugh who reported his death gives Hugh senior's mothers name as ellsie another christian name that has been used in the family.
another conundrum
and I thought the macdonald ancesters of mine were being difficult
many thanks to you all
bruce
still chasing leckie, finlayson, macdonald
once again many thanks
I would seem to have opened a right mish mash with this family.
Hugh Finlayson on his marriage gave his mothers name as flora.
He died 1st october 1929 aged 69 at Quarry cottages Pitroddie and his son Hugh who reported his death gives Hugh senior's mothers name as ellsie another christian name that has been used in the family.
another conundrum
and I thought the macdonald ancesters of mine were being difficult
many thanks to you all
bruce
still chasing leckie, finlayson, macdonald
once again many thanks
Hi again
On the SP image of the 1851 census Bell's age is circled and there is something, I know not what written beside the entry. Also Hugh senior's marital status is badly obscured but it looks to me more like widower than married but I could be wrong.
The only Simpson/ Cameron marriage I could find relates to people from a somewhat different stratum of society. Do you think Flora and Bell were running a small business from home in 1861
Sorry not to insult anyone's ancestors.
Anne
On the SP image of the 1851 census Bell's age is circled and there is something, I know not what written beside the entry. Also Hugh senior's marital status is badly obscured but it looks to me more like widower than married but I could be wrong.
The only Simpson/ Cameron marriage I could find relates to people from a somewhat different stratum of society. Do you think Flora and Bell were running a small business from home in 1861
Sorry not to insult anyone's ancestors.Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
Errol/Kilspindie
Hi All,
I've posted pics of Kilspindie Church (still serving the community) and the Market Square, Errol as it was in earlier days. Hope this is of interest.
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1412
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1413
Kind regards,
mac
Gallery URLs added - AndrewP
I've posted pics of Kilspindie Church (still serving the community) and the Market Square, Errol as it was in earlier days. Hope this is of interest.
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1412
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1413
Kind regards,
mac
Gallery URLs added - AndrewP
Hi Mac
The pillars on the gate in your image of kilspindie church are the war memorial to the men of kilspindie and Rait who perished during the world wars 1 & 2
The Hugh Finlayson who's birth I was looking for his son's memorial is on this gate. He died 21 March 1918.
yours aye
bruce
The pillars on the gate in your image of kilspindie church are the war memorial to the men of kilspindie and Rait who perished during the world wars 1 & 2
The Hugh Finlayson who's birth I was looking for his son's memorial is on this gate. He died 21 March 1918.
yours aye
bruce
Last edited by bleckie on Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hi All
I don't know if this is possible (date)
I believe I have finally found one of the brothers I was looking for? but before I go to the expense of ordering certificates I was wondering if anyone going to Edinburgh would do a lookup for me. The GROS ref is 493/00/0121 he died in Bonhill and Renton in 1963 it is the only death of a James Finlayson in scotland between 1932 and 1994.His mothers maiden name was Elspet Syme, Father Hugh Finlayson, his date of birth is 4th April 1894. To the best of my belief he never married he was still single when he registered his mothers death in 1932
I don't know if this is possible (date)
I believe I have finally found one of the brothers I was looking for? but before I go to the expense of ordering certificates I was wondering if anyone going to Edinburgh would do a lookup for me. The GROS ref is 493/00/0121 he died in Bonhill and Renton in 1963 it is the only death of a James Finlayson in scotland between 1932 and 1994.His mothers maiden name was Elspet Syme, Father Hugh Finlayson, his date of birth is 4th April 1894. To the best of my belief he never married he was still single when he registered his mothers death in 1932
Good Morning All
I wonder if I can be slightly cheeky and ask if anyone is going to NRH anytime soon and if they would be kind enought to do a lookup for me.
I have found two possibilities amonst the modern indexes and I would like confirmation before purchasing extracts the two records I am looking at are.
Hugh Finlayson born 6th April 1886 in the Parish of Errol Perthshire Died Perth 1967 387/00/0175
James Finlayson born 4th April 1894 in the Parish of Errol Perthshire Died Bonhill & Renton 1963 493/00/0121
Parents of the above are Hugh Finlayson and Elspet Syme Married 24th June 1881 at Megginch Cottages Errol
Are the two deaths above the sons of Hugh & Elspet Finlayson
Many thanks in anticipation
Yours Aye
BruceL
P.S. Sorry everyone had forgotten about the post above that's what happens when trying to rush things in the morning. My appologies Bruce
I wonder if I can be slightly cheeky and ask if anyone is going to NRH anytime soon and if they would be kind enought to do a lookup for me.
I have found two possibilities amonst the modern indexes and I would like confirmation before purchasing extracts the two records I am looking at are.
Hugh Finlayson born 6th April 1886 in the Parish of Errol Perthshire Died Perth 1967 387/00/0175
James Finlayson born 4th April 1894 in the Parish of Errol Perthshire Died Bonhill & Renton 1963 493/00/0121
Parents of the above are Hugh Finlayson and Elspet Syme Married 24th June 1881 at Megginch Cottages Errol
Are the two deaths above the sons of Hugh & Elspet Finlayson
Many thanks in anticipation
Yours Aye
BruceL
P.S. Sorry everyone had forgotten about the post above that's what happens when trying to rush things in the morning. My appologies Bruce