Any MacNiven Family Information out there ?

[DeborahM]

Hi to all, just wondering if there are any MacNivens out there who would be able to assist me with my MacNiven Ancestors.
I am unsure If I have I have taken the correct path with my searches so far....that sounds familiar I guess...
My father was Duncan MacNiven Born 2/2/1913 His father was John Fraser MacNiven about 1885 married to Helen Roy Sinclair (Big thankyou to GaryDevine For all his help with the Sinclairs and the Roys ), Duncan MacNiven approx 1850 married to , I think, Dorcas Fraser 1849.. I then have James MacNiven about 1813 married to Mary McNiven 1819....That seems Odd...
Any help would be much appreciated
Regards
DeborahM

[SarahND]

Hello DeborahM,
What kind of information are you looking for? Do you have the marriage certificate for Duncan and Dorcas? That would be a good place to start, since it should give you both her surname (which you seem unsure of) and both of their parents' names.

You don't mention where these people were living, but could this be Duncan and Dorcas in 1891?

1891
Kilmaluaig Cottage, South Knapdale, Argyll
Duncan McNiven, 38, Head, born Kildalton, Argyll, Shepherd
Dorcas McNiven, 37, Wife, born Mull, Argyll
Maggie McNiven, 15, Daur, born Kildalton, Argyll, Scholar
Mary McNiven, 13, Daur, born Kildalton, Argyll, Scholar
John McNiven, 7, Son, born Kildalton, Argyll, Scholar
Duncan McNiven, 6, Son, born Kildalton, Argyll, Scholar
Alexandrina McNiven, 3, Daur, born Kildalton, Argyll
Angus McNiven, 5mo, Son, born So Knapdale, Argyll

The ages don't quite agree with what you said, but in 1881 Duncan was 31, so he seems to have only aged 7 years in 10

Did you get his parents' names from his death certificate?

All the best,
Sarah

[DeborahM]

Hi Sarah , yes I managed to also find the 1891 census for Dorcas and Duncan MacNiven ,and also their marriage certificate but get terribly confused when I look for Duncan's parents on the marriage certificate and it says father James and mother Mary MacNiven maiden name Mary MacNiven. Is this just a little strange !! From here is where I am having difficulties finding more information. Many thanks for your reply. As I am only new at this I am so pleased to see everyone trying to help each other....Regards
DeborahM

[SarahND]

Hi Deborah,
It certainly wouldn't be the first time that two people with the same last name got married! Especially in an area where the number of different surnames is very restricted. What was James' occupation according to the marriage certificate? Were either of the parents listed as deceased?

Regards,
Sarah

[DeborahM]

Hi,
James is listed as shepherd. Neither he or Mary are listed as deceased. The only birth certificate I could find was for a James MacNiven 7/2/1815 in muckairn born to Duncan MacNiven and Ann Campbell in Scotlands People .I tend to get a little excited when you see a name that even remotely resembles your search let alone spelt correctly.as this was ,So I ran with this lead , but now not sure as the Mary MacNiven I cannot find anywhere prior to marrying James MacNiven.
Deborah

[SarahND]

Hi Deborah,

I'm wondering whether James might have been married twice. There is this census:

1851
Carnduncan, Kilchoman Argyll
James McNeivan, 40, Head, born Kilchoman, Argyll, Ag Lab
Christie McNeivan, 30, Wife, born Jura, Argyll, Ag Lab's wife
Flory McNeivan, 4, Daughter, born Kilchom, Argyll, Ag Lab's Daur
Duncan McNeivan, 2, Son, born Kilchom, Argyll, Ag Lab's Son

Although James' wife is known as "Christis" (or something like that, I'm calling her Christie) in 1851, by 1861 he is married to "Mary," with a different birthplace from Christie:

1861
Grinans, Kildalton, Argyll
James Mcniven, 48, Head, born Kilchoman, Argyllshire, Ag Lab
Mary Mcniven, 41, Wife, born Kildalton, Argyllshire
Flora Mcniven, 15, Daughter, born Bowmore, Argyllshire, Field Worker
Sarah Mcniven, 12, Daughter, born Bowmore, Argyllshrei, Scholar
Duncan Mcniven, 12, Son, born Bowmore, Argyllshire
Cathrine Mcniven, 10, Daughter, born Bowmore, Argyllshrie
Isabella Mcniven, 6, Daughter, born Bowmore, Argyllshire

It looks to me like Christie died and James married Mary, incorporating her children into his family. But if so, then if it is Duncan you are descended from, his mother would be the first wife.

On the IGI there is a marriage between James McNiven and Christian Bowie on 20 Mar 1845 in Kilchoman, Argyll

Maybe if you follow James down through the censuses to his death certificate, it will give the names of more than one spouse (often, but not always given-- depends on the knowledge of the informant.)

Regards,
Sarah

[nelmit]

Hi to all, just wondering if there are any MacNivens out there who would be able to assist me with my MacNiven Ancestors.
I am unsure If I have I have taken the correct path with my searches so far....that sounds familiar I guess...
My father was Duncan MacNiven Born 2/2/1913 His father was John Fraser MacNiven about 1885 married to Helen Roy Sinclair (Big thankyou to GaryDevine For all his help with the Sinclairs and the Roys ), Duncan MacNiven approx 1850 married to , I think, Dorcas Fraser 1849.. then have James MacNiven about 1813 married to Mary McNiven 1819....That seems Odd...
Any help would be much appreciated
Regards
DeborahM

Hi Deborah,

Have you looked at the marriage entry for for John and Helen? Just wondering why you think John's mother was Dorcas Fraser.

Regards,
Annette

[SarahND]

Well, it is thundering and pouring rain here and the city hall has phoned to say we are on "orange alert," so nothing to do but stay inside and look up McNivens

James is still living in 1871, with children and grandchildren:

1871
Ardmore, Kildalton, Argyll
James McNevin, 56, Head, born Kilchoman, Argyllshire, Ploughman & Herd
Mary McNevin, 51, Wife, born Kildalton, Argyllshire, Ploughman's wife
Mary McNevin, 25, Daughter, born Kilmeny, Argyllshire, Ploughman's Daur
Flora McNevin, 22, Daughter, born Kilmeny, Argyllshire, Ploughman's Daur
Marrion McNevin, 21, Daughter, born Kilmeny, Argyllshire, Maltman's Wife
James G McNevin, 3, Grandson, born Kildalton, Argyllshire
Duncan McNevin, 2, Grandson, born Kildalton, Argyllshire
Lachlan McNevin, 11mo, Grandson, born Kildalton, Argyllshire
Malcolm Loggan, 4, Sister's Grand Son, born Kildalton, Argyllshire

He keeps on getting younger as the years go by The 1881 census lists the entire household as a Gaelic speaking, so depending on who was collecting the census data, there may have been a problem with communication.

1881
Kinture, Kildalton, Argyll
James McNevin, 60, Head, born Kilchoman, Argyllshire, Herd
Mary McNevin, 57, Wife, born Kildalton, Argyllshire
James McNevin, 12, Grandson, born Kildalton, Argyllshire, Scholar
Duncan McNevin, 11, Grandson, born Kildalton, Argyllshire, Scholar
Lachlan McNevin, 10, Grandson, born Kildalton, Argyllshire, Scholar
Malcolm McLoggan, 14, Sister's Grandson, born Kildalton, Argyllshire, Herd

Mary seems to have died between 1881 and 1891 (her death cert might be revealing, also), but James is still living with his daughter Flora and family. We also find out that Lachlan is the illegitimate son of Flora:

1891
7 Charlotte Street, Kildalton and Oa, Argyll
Donald McIndeor, 39, Head, born Kilchoman, Argyll, Agricultural Labourer
Flora McIndeor, 38, Wife, born Kilmeny, Argyll
Lille Mary McIndeor, 1 1/2, Daur, born Kildalton, Argyll
James McNiven, 73, Father-in-law, born Kilchoman, Argyll, Retired Cattleman or Herd
Lachlan McNiven, 21, Stepson (Illeg), Agricultural Labourer

There is a James m*n*v*n who died in Kildalton in 1899, supposedly born in 1822. Since we know that this man got younger and younger, it is likely to be him, having shaved 10 years off his age by the end!

All the best,
Sarah

[DeborahM]

Hi AnBette,
I am not sure if I am replying in the correct place to you....not too confident with the forum technique I,m afraid.
I have John MacNiven and Helen Sinclairs marriage certificate that states Johns father as Duncan McNiven (missing the a) and Dorcas née Fraser as the mother . Marriage in 1912. My father was born in February 1913 . "instant baby" as they say .
Regards Deborah

[DeborahM]

Oops ! , sorry Annette about the typo with your name. Mind you AnBette could be the new 2012 most popular baby name after my very poor typing skills .
Deborah