G Grandfather born in the East Poor House, then adopted

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jenniferhuebert
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G Grandfather born in the East Poor House, then adopted

Post by jenniferhuebert » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:05 pm

Hello,
I am trying to find out more about my Great-Grandfather who was born in the East Poor House in Dundee (as Ogilvie McKay). Family story is, his mother (Penelope Isabella McKay) was a "barmaid" and single. She put him up for adoption and a woman (Elizabeth McNorton) ADOPTED him and gave him her deceased first husband's name which was DAVID MC KENZIE (orMacKenzie). I have looked on scotlandspeople.gov and haven't found much. I do have a birth certificate for him which was recreated in 1961 "Extracted from the registered book of births, district of St Clemet, burgh of Dundee".
I would love to find the original birth record, or any adoption record, or any census records tying him to Mrs McNorton etc, ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated!!!
thank you! Jen

AndrewP
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Re: G Grandfather born in the East Poor House, then adopted

Post by AndrewP » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:12 pm

Hi Jen,

[TS_welcome]

There is an entry in the births on ScotlandsPeople that looks like a good prospect for you:

OGILVIE McKAY, 1891, Dundee (St Clements)

You are lucky - he was born before census day in 1891. The census entry can be found - same spelling as above, also in Dundee. Unfortunately it will cost you an extra 5 credits to see his mother and the rest of the household - they are on the previous page.

All the best,

AndrewP

jenniferhuebert
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:32 pm

Re: G Grandfather born in the East Poor House, then adopted

Post by jenniferhuebert » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:39 pm

Thank you AndrewP for getting back to me! I will work on this next week, as I am leaving for a few days. I WAS able to find Ogilvie's original birth record, but not the census you mentioned, not sure what I might be doing wrong. Thanks again.

AndrewP
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Re: G Grandfather born in the East Poor House, then adopted

Post by AndrewP » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Hi Jen,

The search I did in the 1891 census (to cover spelling variations) was :
  • Surname :: M*kay
  • Forename :: Og*lv*
  • Age :: from 0 to 1
  • All other options blank
This produces only one result - in Dundee (St Peter district). He appears at the top of the page. Then to see his mother, you need to click on the button VIEW PAGE BEFORE, and pay another 5 credits, and you will find her at the foot of the previous page.

All the best,

AndrewP

jenniferhuebert
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:32 pm

Re: G Grandfather born in the East Poor House, then adopted

Post by jenniferhuebert » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:58 pm

THANK YOU!! with your help, I did get to that census record of 1891... fantastic!!! So, this leads me to my next question... do you think I would find any adoption records, maybe through the church? or any ideas on what happened to Penelope after 1891? I have found (renamed) David McKenzie on 1901 census, 10 yrs old living with his Grandmother at Ferry Port on Craig.

Falkyrn
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Re: G Grandfather born in the East Poor House, then adopted

Post by Falkyrn » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:26 pm

jenniferhuebert wrote:THANK YOU!! with your help, I did get to that census record of 1891... fantastic!!! So, this leads me to my next question... do you think I would find any adoption records, maybe through the church? or any ideas on what happened to Penelope after 1891? I have found (renamed) David McKenzie on 1901 census, 10 yrs old living with his Grandmother at Ferry Port on Craig.
The problem you face is that adoption as we understand it today did not start in Scotland until 1930, prior to that the majority of "adoptions" were within the greater family group with no paperwork involved. Some were arranged through charities or the churches BUT given that he was born in the Poorhouse your best bet might be to check and see if there are any records there (unfortunately I doubt if you will find these online)
~RJ Paton~

killearnan
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Re: G Grandfather born in the East Poor House, then adopted

Post by killearnan » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:54 pm

Falkyrn wrote:The problem you face is that adoption as we understand it today did not start in Scotland until 1930, prior to that the majority of "adoptions" were within the greater family group with no paperwork involved. Some were arranged through charities or the churches BUT given that he was born in the Poorhouse your best bet might be to check and see if there are any records there (unfortunately I doubt if you will find these online)
Not sure about the 1890s, but for the 1870s, all that survives of the poor relief records {based on what I was told when I was in Dundee on a trip to Scotland earlier this year} is the handwritten indexes. But the people at the archives were tremendously helpful ~ see their website at http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive for contact details.

In Edinburgh, I had a similar case ~ great grandfather not born in the poorhouse, but was listed in the relief/poorhouse summary at 8 months old with his siblings {a few months before their mother died}. Then, a year later, he was listed as a child who had been boarded out, with the family that later adopted him. I wrote up a bit more of the story here.

Pictures of from the Edinburgh indexes:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/killearna ... ed-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/killearna ... ed-public/
McGee (Donegal to Edinburgh), Jamieson/Guthrie (Leith), Keddie (Peebles, Galashiels), Little (Cavers, Traquair), Arthur (Galashiels) , Paterson (Edinburgh, with occ. spells in Stirling, Greenock, Leith), Ralston (Glasgow to Stirling), Greig (Elgin)

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