Boer war? where would I.....

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Maud Jarvis
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:03 pm
Location: Essex England

Boer war? where would I.....

Post by Maud Jarvis » Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:58 pm

Hi

Can anyone advise me on what to do next.
I have recently been given information about my paternal grandfather, and could find only his wife on the 1901 census (Scotland) only to find that she was noted to be "a soldiers wife-reservist" as this was around the time of the Boer War, being as he was a reservist, (would he have been regular army previously?) and being a reservist, would he have been sent to fight overseas? or would he have been stationed in a barracks, the family lived in Greenock.

If however he was in a barracks, how would I trace this on the census?
if he was not in a barracks, how can I trace what regiment he would have been in?

Would appreciate any advice, thank you
Seeking any descendents from Ezekiel McCulloch, Port Glasgow, also Neil Barr (Greenock)

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Re: Boer war? where would I...

Post by DavidWW » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:40 pm

Maud Jarvis wrote:Hi

Can anyone advise me on what to do next.
I have recently been given information about my paternal grandfather, and could find only his wife on the 1901 census (Scotland) only to find that she was noted to be "a soldiers wife-reservist" as this was around the time of the Boer War, being as he was a reservist, (would he have been regular army previously?) and being a reservist, would he have been sent to fight overseas? or would he have been stationed in a barracks, the family lived in Greenock.

If however he was in a barracks, how would I trace this on the census?
if he was not in a barracks, how can I trace what regiment he would have been in?

Would appreciate any advice, thank you
Maud

For him to be described as a reservist, he must have been on active service at some point.

Virtually every regiment of the British Army served at some point in South Africa, and there's a good chance that he served there as well.

If he wasn't outside the British Isles in 1901 the he will be enumerated wherever he was..

In terms of records, and I'm widening the scope of the answer so that it's of use to as many readers as possible, in general, in order to be able to locate any extant records, the following is the case in terms of the minimum information required:

1760 – 1872 the name of the regiment (unless the records are among those currently on the TNA catalogue at http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.g ... lt.asp?j=1)


1873 – 1882 the category, - infantry, cavalry, artillery, engineers, guards, and other corps

1883 – 1919 the man’s name will suffice (but obviously a bit more is helpful if it's a John SMITH :roll: )

If you do locate an entry in an on-line index entry, TNA will supply copies, at a reasonable price, of the papers referred to, but only those papers, and not many of the other papers in other records, - to locate those you need to visit Kew, or use a a professional military records researcher.

David

AnneM
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Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:10 pm

Hi David

Sorry to but in on this thread. I'm hoping to be in London in a month or two (I'd better be. I've just enriched Michael and Stelios :( ) Is it realistic for a novice at searching the Military records to hope to be reasonably successful at Kew or might that be a wasted day.

Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:08 am

AnneM wrote:Hi David

Sorry to but in on this thread. I'm hoping to be in London in a month or two (I'd better be. I've just enriched Michael and Stelios :( ) Is it realistic for a novice at searching the Military records to hope to be reasonably successful at Kew or might that be a wasted day.

Anne
I can't speak from personal experience, but from comments from others you shouldn't set you sights too high for the first day; and in order to get anything much useful of a first time "military" visit to Kew, it's essential to read one or more of the following in advance..........

Jane Cox New to Kew? PRO Reader's Guide No 16

Fowler, Simon; Spencer, William, and Tamblin, Stuart, “Army Service records of the First World War 2nd Edition, revised and updated (including Officers’ Service Records)”.

PRO Pocket Guides - Using Army Records

Watts, Michael J., and Watts, Christopher T My Ancestor was in the British Army: How can I Find Out More About Him 1992, Society of Genealogists. ISBN 0 94678947 9

William Spencer Air Force Records for Family Historians

Bruno Pappalardo TRACING YOUR NAVAL ANCESTORS : in the Public Record Office

David
Last edited by DavidWW on Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Maud Jarvis
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:03 pm
Location: Essex England

Boer war? where would I...

Post by Maud Jarvis » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:14 pm



Many thanks David, for your reply re my question about the Boer War,
I think my surname of Barr will be almost as common as that of Smith!
but at least knowing his age & place of residence (Greenock) should I hope, give me clues when trying to trace him.
I shall ask my son to visit Kew for me and see what he can find, I do know however that James did not die during the Boer War, according to information I was given, plus copy of his death cert. he died in 1949. whether that will help in finding him I have no idea, but keeping my fin gers crossed anyway, that hopefully something will turn up.

I had imagined that he must have been in the army as a regular, as I could not trace him on the 1891 census either, nor on the 1881, but a long time ago, some kind person supplied me with his name (wthout his middle name, which he appeared to have dropped at a later stage also)
an entry for Kibble reformatory had his name James Barr, the correct age, so that may have been him then, and its quite possible he could have entered into the army from there.

I now am wondering whether/or where, I could trace the records for that reformatory, would you know where I could try for that?
hope I am not asking too much, if I am, just ignore that part.

Once again, thank you for your kindess in sending a reply, it is much appreciated.
(Maud)
Seeking any descendents from Ezekiel McCulloch, Port Glasgow, also Neil Barr (Greenock)

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Re: Boer war? where would I...

Post by DavidWW » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:28 pm

Maud Jarvis wrote:
Many thanks David, for your reply re my question about the Boer War,
I think my surname of Barr will be almost as common as that of Smith!
but at least knowing his age & place of residence (Greenock) should I hope, give me clues when trying to trace him.
Maud

BARR is bound to be better that SMITH :shock:
I shall ask my son to visit Kew for me and see what he can find, I do know however that James did not die during the Boer War, according to information I was given, plus copy of his death cert. he died in 1949. whether that will help in finding him I have no idea, but keeping my fin gers crossed anyway, that hopefully something will turn up.
Probably as it means there should be pension records for him, and, assuming that he had served a regular engagement in the 1880s/1890s, then these records should not have got caught up in the WWI fire.
I had imagined that he must have been in the army as a regular, as I could not trace him on the 1891 census either, nor on the 1881, but a long time ago, some kind person supplied me with his name (wthout his middle name, which he appeared to have dropped at a later stage also)
an entry for Kibble reformatory had his name James Barr, the correct age, so that may have been him then, and its quite possible he could have entered into the army from there.

I now am wondering whether/or where, I could trace the records for that reformatory, would you know where I could try for that?
hope I am not asking too much, if I am, just ignore that part.
Just try http://www.kibble.org/home.htm ,
but I have no idea what records they have :!:

David
Last edited by DavidWW on Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CatrionaL
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Post by CatrionaL » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:40 pm

Maud & David

I tried the site and found there was a comma too many

http://www.kibble.org/home.htm

This should work

Catriona

Maud Jarvis
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:03 pm
Location: Essex England

Boer war? where would I...

Post by Maud Jarvis » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:33 pm

Hi
Just had kunch and thought I`ll just have another quick look at the e-mails and see if there was an ything else, apart from your message, when I had got that this morning, I just ignored the rest, good job I have just come back and seen your next reply! (the rest can wait again!)

How can I thank you for this next lot of info, your are smashing, thanks.
Esecially the info about the Kibble.. and also thanks to you as well CatrionaL for pointing out the correction , as soon as I have sent this I will go straight on to the site mentioned and see what can be found.

I have been so lucky I can hardly believe it, I have searched for so long to find out anything about this elusive ancestor and now have so much all at once to work on, my head is spinning, I thought I would never find him.

I wonder if my father would have told me anything anout himself and his father if he had lived, sadly he died when I was only 10 years old, so I never got to know very much about him, and of course my mother never told me anything anout his side of the family, I never saw any of his relatives after he died, except for, the person I now know was his half-sister (my auntie Lizzie) I thought she was perhaps his cousin, because she had a different surname (Hutton) and because she and her family liv ed very near to us, my mother was unable to prevent my seeing her and my cousins, (3 girls) I was friends with the middle cousin nearest in age to myself, and we used to see each other very frequently, we would walk to school together (she went to the RC school and I to the Protestant one)
my mother tried to discourage our friendship and I could not understand why, except that it was because of our different religion, in Scotland as you no doubt know, relations between RCs and Protestants was frowned upon, especially when I was a girl, so I imagined it was because of that, never dreamt of the real reason, even when I became an adult, my auntie never told me any anything, so I never knew my father had been born illegitimate, I was simply shown the photograph of my father`s mother, and told she was grannie "Barr" and that my grandfather Barr had died, both of them actually before I was born.
I know now that my grannie was not Barr, but had in fact married a Joseph Hutton, that grandfather Barr died 1913. I never thought at the time to question why there was no photo of him, it was just accepted by me as a child.
I don`t really know when my father "adopted" the name of Barr, but its possible he did not do so until after his mother died (in 1914) perhaps he found out then his name was actually McCulloch and that his mother had not married James Barr.
Of course in those days, it was considered shameful to have been born illegitimate, so I cannot blame him for not wanting it to be known, especially when later in life he became a church elder.

Once again, many thanks for the additional information, I must get cracking now.
Maud
Seeking any descendents from Ezekiel McCulloch, Port Glasgow, also Neil Barr (Greenock)

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:50 am

Anne MI dispatched my very blonde in the head teenage daughter down to Kew with the same trepidation as you. Together with her very blonde local friend they turned up more information than i could wave a stick at. From what they told me, there is lots of help from the staff down there.
I hope this is some encouragement to you. You might get all you want and still find time to do the gardens, which i thoroughly reccommend.
Enjoy your visit
MM

PS Don't forget to book ahead

Maud Jarvis
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:03 pm
Location: Essex England

Boer War

Post by Maud Jarvis » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:08 am

Thanks for our words of encouragement, I`m just keeping my fingers crossed.
I`ve never been to Kew myself (because of being disabled don`t manage to make very many journeys) however, son enjoys going there and digging around, so its just a case of waiting until he is ready to go there, will have to wait patiently.
Then , hopefully await the results.


Duplicate post deleted - Andrew Paterson
Seeking any descendents from Ezekiel McCulloch, Port Glasgow, also Neil Barr (Greenock)