DATING A PHOTOGRAPH.....

[Sobil]

Hi all,

I've loaded a photo called "WW1 photo" which I think is under "deciphering handwriting" in the gallery. (everything I load seems to end up in this place!)

Anyway, I'm assuming this is about World War 1 but does anyone have any expertise on the ladies costumes.... could they be post war? And I have no idea if the man in the middle is wearing a Trilby or the hat of an Australian or Canadian force. Are there any military buffs among you who can pin down which forces they were in?

I would love some feedback to learn what I am missing!

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-244

Sobil

[DavidWW]

Hi all,

I've loaded a photo called "WW1 photo" which I think is under "deciphering handwriting" in the gallery. (everything I load seems to end up in this place!)

Anyway, I'm assuming this is about World War 1 but does anyone have any expertise on the ladies costumes.... could they be post war? And I have no idea if the man in the middle is wearing a Trilby or the hat of an Australian or Canadian force. Are there any military buffs among you who can pin down which forces they were in?

I would love some feedback to learn what I am missing!

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-244

Sobil

I'm near certain that the groom's hat is US or Canadian.

No idea on his military supporter. It doesn't look like the definition of the photo will be good enough so that a blowup would allow the cap badge to be identified. A real expert might be able to say something on the basis of his uniform.

I'll leave the ladies dresses to the ladies

Always worth checking when Simnett of Burton-on-Trent were in business.

David

[AnneM]

Hi Sobil

From the shorter length of the skirts I would roughly guess around 1916 or 1917 at which stage skirts got to around mid calf but bridal wear is not necessarily the same as everyday clothing and I am no expert and could be way out. The skirts just seem a bit long for the 1920s. The best site I've found for the 'look' for the different eras is www.fashion-era.com which includes wedding photos from the 1920s and instructions on dating old photies from the clothing. It seems to be a mixture of US and UK and I can not vouch for the accuracy but I could look at it for hours. There is just so much to see.

If you are a clothie you will love it.

Anne

[Sobil]

Thanks all.

I thought it was too long for the twenties... they couldn't do much flapping in that. I'll have a long leisurely surf around the costumes tomorrow.

I tried finding some Canadian uniform sites... no luck so far but he does look a little like a Mountie. I've never seen anything like it in the US. From what I recall of WWII drama, the Aussies had similar hats but they were more squashy and had toggled straps under their chins. So unless the New Zealanders had a more formal look it should be Canadian. I've been all over the Canadian and Australian army lists, no sign of him.

Is there a Country I haven't considered?

Sobil

[DavidWW]

.....snipped .............

Is there a Country I haven't considered?

Sobil

South African or Rhodesian ??!!

David

[Sobil]

AAAhhhhhh

Thanks a lot DWW

The Boer War.... maybe he enlisted before WWI. He was born 1888 so could he have caught the end of it? Not sure of my dates so I'll check that out. Any ideas on minimum age of enlistment back then?

Sobil

[AnneM]

If born 1888 would have struggled to be in the Boer War. It emded in 1902 at which date he would only have been 14. Think that even for those days that would have been a bit young.

Anne

[Malcolm]

Interesting photograph Sobil. My guess is the big bloke with the hat is Canadian and that the subject is post Great War. It’s the formal creasing of his hat that pursuades me amongst other things. His trousers are of the Jodhpur type as worn by the Mounties. Perhaps Canadian soldiers wore this garb as well. I cannot find any examples of the uniforms they wore. Apart from this there are no medals on the Groom or best man or even a medal strip although our man of the moment appears to have a name tag on his right breast.
The symbolism of the beer barrel is intriguing. I say symbolism because that’s all it is, for the contents will not be drunk at this wedding party. It would have to be laid to rest for a few days to allow the beer to clear.
The chap on the right, who I take to be the bride’s father, is the one wearing the trilby. This was conventional dress for brewers and draymen. Where I live these men with similar brown hats and coats were seen until recently, hauling great barrels of beer on a coach led by a team of Shire Horses.
The contrast between the ladies, particularly the ones to the left of the photograph and the centre is striking. The older lady sits bolt upright with her knees and feet together, her legs angled slightly with respect to her body, rather like the poise of a lady getting out of a small car in a short skirt. The one in the centre is a party girl. With her broad smile, open lap and relatively plunging neckline she is the Edwardian equivalent of my daughter. “Sod convention” ! I think this dates the photograph to about 1920. Apparently this was the year when the cleavage was reinvented. I know this because, believe it or not, and purely for research purposes on your behalf only, I found a website on this very subject.
The bride doesn’t flourish a ring and appears to have a gammy, gloved left hand, and no right hand at all. There is movement in the photograph as shown in the billowing skirts and perhaps this detail was obscured as well. It’s a shame that the photographer chose the brick wall backdrop for his art. Whoever laid those bricks needed stuffing with a ragman’s trumpet.
I don’t know about you but where information about my ancestors is scarce, I dream of stories around what facts I know. In this case I reckon that your man was here to oversee the repatriation of his countrymen from one or more of the many field hospitals around the country, met the nurse of his dreams who herself had seen active service on the Siegfreid line, took her away to his home in the Rocky Mountains where they had lots of babies and lived happily ever after.
MM

[winslowsmom]

The groom is dressed exactly like my grandfather's photo when he served in WW1 in the US Marines. It was the hat that I especially remembered.
Perhaps the other fellow is an officer. I looked at a website
http://www.ushist.com/uniforms_world-war-one_us_wwi.htm and
it seems that the groom's is an enlisted man's hat, and the other
style is an officer's. Any way to do a clearer scan to see the
ensigna?
Great photo.

[Sobil]

Thanks Winslowmom,

The site is really useful and does appear to match, it gives me a direction. I'll have to find a site that lists US WW1 and post war recruits. I tried the Canadian Archives and found nothing.

Malcolm,

A daughter who flouts convention is a girl who thinks for herself.... you should be proud of her even if she has green hair and a hankerchief for a skirt.

The possibilty that the Bride's father was a drayman or a brewer had not occurred to me. The Groom is English and the grandson of an Innkeeper but none of his family were present at the wedding.

The fact that he has no medals or strips.... would that indicate a new enlistee? He was supposed to be merchant navy and 26 at the start of World War 1 so why or how would an Englishman, most of whom were forced to enlist, join the US army? Or could he have been exempt by profession and then joined the US army post war? He was reputedly someone who flouted convention!

You have a real eye for the ladies and an interesting turn of phrase..... it suggests a man with the manners or yesteryear (good breeding?) whose children are not yet old enough to have been come a reflection of you... no grandchildren yet? And a man who has had cause and time to reflect on the grouting and surrounds of the exteriors of public houses..... I wouldn't dare to imagine the reasons for that!

Cheers

Sobil