POWs

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HeatherH
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:30 pm
Location: Nova Scotia ,Canada

POWs

Post by HeatherH » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:01 am

Hello all,
About 2 years ago I came across a reference to some papers on a site called "Behind the Wire" regarding my Grandfathers time as a POW in WW1.It wasn't much but it did confirm he had been a POW , he had been in the 2nd Bat Gordon Highlanders and he had escaped.
Today I went to my local book shop and bought a copy of Practical Family History.I didn't see any articles on the cover that related to my reseach (so I thought) but I am an addict and knew I would enjoy reading about others and their deid rellies.
After dinner and homework and all the other bits and pieces like kisses and cuddles at bedtime I finally had a chance to sit down with a hot cup of tea and the remote.(I had tried my hand earlier in the day at the OPRs and while I did find a few I also found that it is indeed a matter of hit or miss as to how well detailed the baptism or marriage is.I wanted to think of my next move as it were before heating up the old plastic again.) But the TV held my interest for only about 5 minutes when I remembered my purchase from earlier in the day.
I got my magazine and read a few pages until I came to an article on civilian POWs in WW1 germany . I thought that I may get a idea of my Grandfathers situation from the article even though he was in the army and no doubt at a different camp.
Near the end of the item there was a URL for a Military search on the Archives . I thought there was something I could do before I headed for work tomorrow evening .But I decided to give it a go instead before bed.I knew it would keep me thinking all night wondering if my grandfather might be among the records available and I didn't want to wait any longer to be disappointed .I had found my grandfathers medal index cards on the Archives site but I had had no luck finding any links to anything like this.
I typed in the addy and shot straight to a search page .Typed in just the surname Johnstone and WOW!.Of only 3000 records availlable there he was.William Johnstone Private 379 2nd Bat Gordon Highlanders.
Out came the plastic and I read in his own words of his capture and imprisonment in WW1.It mentions both his attemped escape and his final success.
I'm on cloud 9 at the moment . The page numbers match those on the Behind the Wire site that I had hoped one day to pay a reseacher to look at for me.Instead for £3.50 or about $7 can I now have a copy to read over and over.
If anyone is interested in looking for their own POW rellies this is the URL for Behind the Wire http://www.1914-1918.net/POW/index.php
and the URL for the National Archives search page is
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/pow.asp
I would have to say this is my best find yet.
Happy Hunting,
HeatherH [many-greens]
Looking for ...but not limited to Haldane ,Keir ,McLauchlan ,Walker ,Torrance , Reid ,Clark ,Johnstone ,Holmes ,Laurie ,Lawrie ,Strachan , McIlwee ,Welsh ,Queate ,Stewert ,McNight ,Steele ,Cockburn ,Young ....whew! That's more than enough for now.

StewL
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:59 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Post by StewL » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:20 am

Heather

Well done ,and done over a cup of tea, too :shock: methinks a quite ale would have been nicer, over here it is hot 37deg C.
Stewie

Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson

HeatherH
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Posts: 700
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:30 pm
Location: Nova Scotia ,Canada

Post by HeatherH » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:36 pm

Hello Stewie,
Two young Ozzie university students were trying out skates on Lake Banook for the first time yeaterday.I don't think they would agree with a cold one just now. Probably headed straight for "Timmie" for a hot chocolate.
As for me my tea is gone so I'n off to bundle up and take Robbie to school.
Happy Burns day all.
HeatherH (Still on cloud nine ,,,at least until I get outside and feel the wind chill.)
Looking for ...but not limited to Haldane ,Keir ,McLauchlan ,Walker ,Torrance , Reid ,Clark ,Johnstone ,Holmes ,Laurie ,Lawrie ,Strachan , McIlwee ,Welsh ,Queate ,Stewert ,McNight ,Steele ,Cockburn ,Young ....whew! That's more than enough for now.

Rach
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Tweeddale

Post by Rach » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:18 pm

Hi Heather,
What a great find. No wonder you are jumping for joy. It looks an excellent site for anyone who knows of ancestors who were POW's in the Great War.
Well done.
Rae
Names of interest: Perthshire- Taylor, McDonald, McRaw, Gould; Caithness- Cormack, Campbell, Sutherland; Berwickshire- Darling, Johnson, Whitlie, Forrest/Forrester/Foster, Barns/Barnes,Buglass/Bookless; Wilson, Thorburn, Cowe, Laing, Rae, Colven, Collin,

ninatoo
Posts: 1231
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:42 am
Location: Australia

Post by ninatoo » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:19 pm

That's fantastic news HEather! I would be interested in hearing what William Johnstone had to say, but of course only if you want to share it!

Nina
Researching: Easton ( Renfrewshire, Dunbarton and Glasgow), Corr (Londonderry and Glasgow), Carson (Co. Down, Irvine, Ayrshire and Glasgow), Logan (Londonderry and Glasgow)

HeatherH
Global Moderator
Posts: 700
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:30 pm
Location: Nova Scotia ,Canada

Post by HeatherH » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:45 pm

Thank you nina I'd love to share.Would it be acceptable if I retyped the document and put the credit for the site on it ? Or how should I go about this?
HH
Looking for ...but not limited to Haldane ,Keir ,McLauchlan ,Walker ,Torrance , Reid ,Clark ,Johnstone ,Holmes ,Laurie ,Lawrie ,Strachan , McIlwee ,Welsh ,Queate ,Stewert ,McNight ,Steele ,Cockburn ,Young ....whew! That's more than enough for now.

Merlot
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Posts: 345
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:31 am
Location: Glasgow

Post by Merlot » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:47 pm

Great find Heather, it's a fantastic feeling when you get a result like this.
All the best.

Merlot
Researching:- Cameron, McMillan, Gray, McLean, More, Hastie, McLiver, Dunipace.....

Jean Jeanie
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Location: Stafford West Mids

Post by Jean Jeanie » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:12 pm

Heather

Wow :!: What a wonderful find.

Hope you can publish the details and let us all share in your wonderful moment.

You must be on top of the world.

Jean

ninatoo
Posts: 1231
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:42 am
Location: Australia

Post by ninatoo » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:00 pm

Heather,

If I was doing it I think I would transcribe the document and give the source of the information at the end. I transcribed a court case for my gg grandfather and acknowledged NAS at the end since it was there that I found it. I think I would probably have to acknowledge Ayr or Scottish Courts somehow (too) if it was not for my own personal use, but then, mine is not going to be published, just shared privately. I think if that is all that was/is intended by you, then acknowledgement of the site is enough, but then I am guessing so maybe worth checking up.

Nina
Researching: Easton ( Renfrewshire, Dunbarton and Glasgow), Corr (Londonderry and Glasgow), Carson (Co. Down, Irvine, Ayrshire and Glasgow), Logan (Londonderry and Glasgow)

HeatherH
Global Moderator
Posts: 700
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:30 pm
Location: Nova Scotia ,Canada

Post by HeatherH » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:08 pm

Hi there,
Finally finished transcribing the 3 pages I found on my Grandfather from the Archives at Kew. Here is what I found...

3173-3175 No. 2522

Name Johnstone, William
Rank Private
No. and Regiment 379 , 2nd Battalion, Gordon Highlanders
Home Address Hillside Cottage, Auchenlochan, Argyllshire
Present Age 29
Occupation before War Soldier
Place and Date of Capture Ypres. 29th October 1914
Nature of wound, if any. In left leg, below knee.

When I was lying wounded a German soldier gave me a hit with his rifle. We were taken to a collecting station behind the lines and then went to the divisional headquarters; here we got a piece of bread and some water.
Journey. Oct.30-Nov 2 1914
The following day we were taken to a Belgian store and made to draw up provisions for the German troops, and then started in filthy closed cattle-trucks for Germany. At every station
we stopped at the doors were thrown open and civilians came and swore at us, and threw stones. Two stations beyond Dusseldorf, when we stopped, an officer sprang in and struck Lance-corporal Wilson, of the Coldstream Guards, with the flat of his sword as he lay wounded. Any men of Scotch regiments were always displayed to the people.
Cassel Hospital. Nov.2 1914-Jan.2 1915
I never had my wound dressed till we got to Cassel, and then I was overlooked and went a week before I got the second dressing. I arrived at Cassel Hospital on 2nd November 1914. I was two months in hospital and have nothing to complain of the treatment I received.
Camp. Jan 2- Aug 1915
On 2nd Jan 1915 I came out of hospital and went into Cassel Camp. It was a very bad place; there were about 20,000 prisoners, of which 116 were British. The barracks had originally been built to hold 1,000 men. At night we British dared not show ourselves outside the huts or we were knocked about. One night Sergeant Goodfellow, of the Cheshires, and Lance-corporal Foreshaw went outside and the sentry kicked and knocked them about until they were black and blue. When they complained to the commandant he said he would punish them if they came to him again with such trivial complaints.
I was at Cassel during the Typhus outbreak, which was very bad. Between 3000 and 4000 prisoners died, mostly French and Russian. There were two men, Ernest Green of the Gloucesters and Randall of the South Staffs., who were sent to hospital and no one ever heard from them again. We told Mr. Gerard, who made enquiries, but could find out nothing about them. Counting these two men, 16 British prisoners died. When the typhus broke out they partitioned off at first a piece of each barrack as a hospital or receiving room, afterwards they put up hospitals, but the Germans did very little for the sick. Mr. Williams, the English chaplain, said the outbreak was only beaten in severity by that at Wittenberg. We used to do what we could ourselves for the patients. The outbreak lasted three or four months.
After the outbreak finished we had a lot of boxing gloves sent out to us, and one day when we were having a little boxing bout the officer in charge of the guard turned out his men and they charged us with fixed bayonets, beating us with the butt end of their riffles. Many men had their arms and legs broken and had to go to hospital. The attack was quite uncalled for.
Heuberg. Aug.-Dec. 1915
I stayed at Cassel till August or September 1815, and then 57 of us were sent to Heuberg in Baden.
One day I walking about the camp when one of the guard hit me over the ear for no reason whatever; they had taken away the riffles from the soldiers and given them sticks instead. Another time when I was very bad with rheumatics I had to lie about 5 or 6 days before I could get admitted to hospital. One day a General was coming to inspect the camp I went to the Under-Officer and told him I was ill and asked if I might stop in barracks, He said, No, and ran after me and kicked me down the stairs.
At Heuberg we did no work besides make the camp, working from 5 to 12 and from 4 to 6. We were only a few months here, and a week before Christmas, 1915, we went to Mannheim.
Mannheim. Dec. 1915 - May 15 1916.
Mannheim is the best camp I have been in in Germany. I was there until May 1916. The English did not do much work here, only odd jobs about the camp. I have nothing to complain of here.
Tauberbischofsheim. May 15- 22 1916
About 15th May I went to Tauberbischofsheim, a working camp, and was sent out after a week to a place called Neudenau.
Neudenau. May- Nov. 1916
Six of us were sent, and we worked on small farms. I received very good treatment from the people I worked for, and stayed for six or seven months.
Krautheim. Nov. 1916
After this five of us were sent to Krautheim, but only stayed a few days, as we refused to work, for the place we were put in was filthy and so were the people.
Tauberbischofsheim. Nov.-Dec. 1916
We got eight days in prison, and then were sent back to Tauberbischofsheim and after a week here we were sent back to Heuberg in December 1916.
Heuberg. Dec 1916- April 1917
Haeg. April- Dec. 5 1917
I spent the winter at Heuberg, and in April 1917 I was sent out to work on a farm at Haeg, a very good place.
Heuberg. Dec. 5 1917- March 1918
Konigsfeld. March- May 1918
There were ten of us, five lived in the village and worked there and the other five worked on outlying farms. I stayed here until 5th of December 1917, and then went back to Heuberg until March 1918, when I was sent to a hotel in Konigsfeld and worked on the farm attached to it. The food was anything but good. The woman who ran the place was very insulting; she had had a brother who had fought against us in the South African war, and was always telling lies about what happened then.
1st Escape. May 1918.
Heuberg. May- June 1918.
I stayed here until May, when I attempted to escape, was caught and sent back to Heuberg and after a fortnight to Konigsfeld, and then to Neustadt.
The conditions in Heuberg for the men are not very good. You have to work no matter what the weather was, and we had very severe winters. The food was quite insufficient without our food parcels from England. Now they issue daily only one half bucketful of coal for four stoves in a barrack room, and you are not allowed to take in wood when you are out, though we did manage to sometimes. I saw a representative from the Dutch Legation early in 1917, and someone came early in 1918; complaints were made to them, but I do not know that it brought any improvement. We had several visits from a Y.M.C.A. gentleman from Sweden, he was very good, and got us books and other little things. We had a theatre there, not a very good one, and we could play football, but there was no special ground for it. I do not think the commandant liked to see us enjoying ourselves at it, for he issued an order that another wire was to be put up about 18 feet from the barbed wire around the camp, and said if our ball went between these two wires the sentry could shoot us if we tried to recover the ball, which of course meant that we could not play. But the discipline is getting much slacker, as it is also among the German soldiers. Heuberg is a big military center, and I have seen a private soldier talking to an officer without standing at attention as if they were equals.
Neustadt. June-Sept. 20,1918
Neustadt is a big paper factory. The work for some of the men is not too bad, but the barrack accomadation is scandalous, not fit for human habitation. The whole place is rotten and filthy, and very verminous. We made complaints, but got no satisfaction. If it is possible to have a
Representative of England I think he should go and see the place. I am positive a lot of alterations could be made for the benefit of the prisoners, and it is large enough to warrant a visit.
There were 83 prisoners about 40 British and the remainder French, Italians and Russians. You sleep four in a bed, two above and two below. There are two small stoves outside the door of the barrack room for cooking, and when we are brought back for dinner we are locked in and they came back for us ¼ of an hour before we had to go back to work. If they must lock us in they could put the door in a different place. We heard 15 more were coming, and they are going to open another room above, which will be even worse than ours were.
The night Webster and another man escaped a store room where our things were kept was broken into and seven new pairs of boots and about 200 tins of things were stolen. The Feldwebel tried to pretend it was these men who had taken them, and when I said it wasn’t likely they would load themselves up with about 60lbs. weight of things he then said he would put the police on to the track, but nothing was done.
The orders for the French prisoners of war are hung up in French, and I think they ought to do this for the English; we never really knew what our orders were. When the French are given arrest they are allowed to take their blanket, overcoat and a book, we saw it in their orders, but we are not allowed to take these. I do not see why there should be any difference made in the treatment of prisoners of war. Then again, the French work 10 hours a day, but if they are kept overtime at night they must have extra time off during the day. One day a week they have to have free, if possible Sunday; every other Sunday when the shifts are changing certain of our men have to work for 20 hours right off. On Sundays those of us who were not working were allowed to go into the town with a sentry to shop, and in the afternoon we went for a walk for about 3 hours, otherwise there is no recreation whatever.
I talked a good deal with Germans during the time I was out there. The general opinion now is that the war is completely lost, and many say that when the war is over they will make short work of the Kaiser. Even the soldiers talk, and say it is the capitalists and the military party who are keeping it on. They are realising now that they have been kept down, they are silly to work for what they have done even in peacetime, and they wish they were under the French or the British. They say they hope Prussia will be broken up and they would like to see Germany divided up again into small States. They all say they are coming over to England as soon as they can, and at the factory at Neustadt they have drums of paper labelled “Use No Hooks” (in English) ready to be shipped over here as soon as possible. They are turning out enormous quantities of paper, making it from wood pulp. We heard all the news from the men we were with; one of them had a brother who came to see him on leave, and he said that huge numbers of soldiers were simply laying down their arms and giving themselves up to the British and French as they are very short of food.
At the factory we got the same food as the Germans got and it was inadequate for the hard work that was to be done. They are constantly sending in petitions to have their allowances increased, saying it is impossible to work on what they got. I know this was done as late as three weeks ago.
I received my first parcel about May 1915, since then they have come pretty regularly, sometimes of course being held up along the way. Letters of late have been very delayed, often taking from six to eight weeks, this is much worse than it used to be.
I saw no American prisoners, but plenty of Italians, who were in rather a bad way. They are receiving parcels now, but not many.
Escape Sept. 20,1918.
I escaped with Private Wood on the night of the 20th September 1918, and got into Switzerland on the 23rd.
Examined by T. Byard.
3rd October 1918

@crown copyright National Archives
Looking for ...but not limited to Haldane ,Keir ,McLauchlan ,Walker ,Torrance , Reid ,Clark ,Johnstone ,Holmes ,Laurie ,Lawrie ,Strachan , McIlwee ,Welsh ,Queate ,Stewert ,McNight ,Steele ,Cockburn ,Young ....whew! That's more than enough for now.