Need a shipping expert - please

Fisherman, Merchant vessels, Emigrant ships etc.

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Jenyfer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Jenyfer » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:33 pm

Hi Alan,
Wonderful Raymond at Montrose Library has been through the Montrose Review from August to December 1847 and guess what - nothing about the Countess of Airlie! (Although lots about people living on credit, banks in dire straights and general financial mayhem - nothing new then!) He's promised another look through but I'm not holding my breath for a positive result...So Robert Brand down as the captain but we now know he died in February 1846, a 'report' of grave concern for the ship in Nov 1847 in the Aberdeen paper - quoting a story in the Montrose Review that does not exist. After Nov 3rd - no countess or Captain David Jolly ever again...this puzzle seems to get bigger the more I discover!
Thanks again for all your help.
Jen

Currie
Posts: 3707
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Currie » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:58 pm

Hello Jen,

If they checked the bound editions of the Montrose Review and the story wasn’t there maybe it was actually in the Montrose, Arbroath & Brechin Review, which is on microfilm, and the newspaper shortened the name. That’s if it isn’t the same newspaper.

Here’s something that probably doesn’t mean anything but just adds a bit more mud to the water. These are lists of codes of signals for the use of vessels employed in the merchant service.

1842 (USA publication) 2379 Countess of Airlie.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=JV4 ... 22&f=false

1947 (UK publication)
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Lts ... 22&f=false

1854
https://archive.org/stream/acodesignals ... 8/mode/2up

1858
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Elo ... 22&f=false

1862
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=45x ... 22&f=false

1864 – footnote that will be omitted in future unless otherwise requested.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Zls ... 22&f=false

1866 – this name will be struck out etc.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=H1k ... 22&f=false

1869 – still there and no comment.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=mp1 ... 22&f=false

In 1836 straw hats and red nightcaps were in vogue on the Countess of Airlie and she was making trips to South America. Maybe that was still the fashion when your fellow was in charge. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=5jW ... 22&f=false

Best of luck,
Alan

Jenyfer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Jenyfer » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:20 pm

Hi Alan,
Still have to go through above this just came in from Montrose.....

Hi, is what I found I the Montrose Review Oct 1847

Great anxiety begins to be felt for the fate of the brigantine Countess of Airlie of this port. This vessel was reported to be at Elsinore on the 4th current, rom Riga to London, with a cargo of wheat; and since then, no tidings have reached this place regarding her.

So nothing new then....
Sorry on kindle...typing not great!

Alan SHARP
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:41 pm
Location: Waikato, New Zealand

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Alan SHARP » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:24 am

Greetings.

A cargo of wheat, on an old vessel, does not sound like a good recipe to me. Many a ship went down when the wheat got wet, and planking was sprung.

Alan SHARP.

Jenyfer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Jenyfer » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:55 pm

HI,
Thanks Alan - put like that is sounds like a recipe for disaster! I think now I really do have to assume this ship went down with her crew and was never listed as wrecked or lost in any official documents.
Thanks
Jen

Alan SHARP
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:41 pm
Location: Waikato, New Zealand

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Alan SHARP » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:40 am

Greetings Jen.

I'm no expert, and I'm not saying that is what happened, but when you are doing research about the pioneers you often come upon accounts of when wheat [plus other grains] were in sufficient quantity to swell and do damage, when not kept dry enough.

Below decks, in confined spaces, the swelling grains could, and did, pop planking. Also the composting process, with time, could also generate enough heat to start a fire in the upper layers of the product.

Spontaneous combustion was always an issue that farmers were aware of, with stacked hay, and siloed grains.

My father used to dine out on one of his experiences as a teenager. My Grand Father had a grand potato harvest one year, and after selling off the top graded potatoes to the hotels within easy cartage, and filling the local domestic orders, he still had a large quantity to store, and release on to the market through the winter. So the sacks of potatoes were packed from floor to ceiling in the fertilizer barn. A building with a wooden floor, on piles at dray height.

One sack somewhere in the middle must have had a rotten one or two in it. Ten days later in the still of the morning air, Grandfather smelt something he did not want to smell, and immediately called all hands to clear the sacks from the shed. The mushy sacks in the centre were too hot to handle, so the old quiet plough horse had to be used, hitched up to the drainage drag, to clear the barn, and save it from going up in smoke.

Dad believed they were only just in time, to save the barn.

Alan SHARP.

Jenyfer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Jenyfer » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:51 am

Hi,
I've been back to the newspapers again. Seems like September 1847 was very stormy. There are quotes from one Captain who had crossed the North Sea over 150 times saying it was by far the worst weather he'd ever seen. The report mentions hurricane strength winds. Maybe dreadful weather, an old boat and a cargo of wheat all contributed to the fate of the Countess of Airlie.
Jen

Jenyfer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Jenyfer » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:17 am

Hi Alan,
A year on and still no further forward finding the fate of the Countess of Airlie but I have found the following which is just a tad intriguing...Captain Robert Brand was married to someone called Charlotte Inglis. Charlotte's brother was the Reverend Robert Inglis - minister in Edzell. Well, in 1861 a David Johnston and family appear on the census just before the entry for the Reverend and his family. Thirty six years later David Johnston's granddaughter will marry David Jolly - grandson of the ill fated captain.
Jen

Jenyfer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: Need a shipping expert - please

Post by Jenyfer » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:22 pm

It's now 2018 and a tardy update...
I followed through on the 9 year old John Hood to be found with his granny Margaret Rae living in St Cyrus in 1841. He turned out to be the son of Diana Rae and a John Hood born Milton, St Cyrus on the 3rd of June 1832 - five years before Diana married David Jolly.

John Hood joins the merchant navy in 1846, on his navy record his birth place is given as St Cyrus and his birthdate is given as the 3rd of June 1831 - that makes him only 14 not the stated 15 when he goes to sea as an apprentice. There are only two years of records for John 1846 and 1847...in the 1847 column is written 'Lost'. This is the year the Countess of Airlie goes missing. An inspection of both his and David Jolly's records for 1846 and 1847 show they were both sailing on the same ship (huge thanks to Seaweed at Rootchat for helping me with the navy codes). I'm fairly confident that John Hood was sailing with his step-father on the Countess of Airlie and that Diana Rae lost both her husband and son in late 1847.
Jen

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