COMPLETED - ANYONE VISITING TOWER HILL MEMORIAL?

Fisherman, Merchant vessels, Emigrant ships etc.

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Adam Brown
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Re: ANYONE WITH DIGITAL CAMERA VISITING TOWER HILL MEMORIAL?

Post by Adam Brown » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:19 pm

jim mccreadie wrote:Two DEMS gunners
Jim

The DEMS gunners will be listed on one of the Royal Navy Memorials. Only Merchant Seamen are listed at Tower Hill.

Regards

Adam
[url=http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/]Scottish War Memorials[/url]
[url=http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/]Scottish War Graves[/url]
[url=http://scottishmonuments.s2.bizhat.com/]Scottish Monuments, Memorials and Architectural Sculpture[/url]

Adam Brown
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Post by Adam Brown » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:10 pm

Jim

I'm afraid I haven't got copies of these panels of the Tower Hill memorial.

I can only find one of the men named on the CWGC database

McCREADIE, JAMES
Rank: Master
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: S.S. Stanwold (London)
Age: 50
Date of Death: 27/02/1941
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 101.
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL
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[url=http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/]Scottish War Graves[/url]
[url=http://scottishmonuments.s2.bizhat.com/]Scottish Monuments, Memorials and Architectural Sculpture[/url]

jim mccreadie
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Fremantle, Western Australia

ANYONE WITH DIGITAL CAMERA VISITING TOWER HILL MEMORIAL?

Post by jim mccreadie » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:15 pm

Thanks for that Adam. I do not know the names of the DEMS gunners.

I have been able to identify a few crew members of SS STANWOLD, these being Chief Officer John Dalton POTTS, aged 30 Years, survived the sinking but died onshore of hypothermia; Acting Able Seaman George ROBB, C/JX 190226 (believed to have been HMS PRESIDENT III ships company) and Boatswain Isaac SMITH, age 20 years.

STANWOLD was London registered while RONALDSHAY was Bengali (India) registered.

Jim McCreadie
Fremantle
Western Australia
q98
32 00 S 115 45 E

Adam Brown
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Location: Edinburgh

Post by Adam Brown » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:41 pm

These are the four Navy men lost of the Stanwold on 27th February 1941

Leading Seaman Douglas James BUTLER. C/JX 173800
Able Seaman Edward Ernest HARVEY. C/JX 199294
Able Seaman Albert George HEFFORD. C/JX 193537
Able Seaman Bernard WILBURN. C/JX 188222

The first two are listed on the Chatham Memorial, they other two are both buried in the Langney Cemetery in Eastbourne. None of the Merchant Seaman lost on the Stanwold are listed as being buried in the same cemetery although three un-named merchant seamen are buried there.

Here are the rest of the crew

BREWERTON, H - 27/02/1941
ELLIOTT, AD - 27/02/1941
HELLYAR, RRC - 27/02/1941
HENRY, RW - 27/02/1941
HORNER, JT - 27/02/1941
KAY, R - 27/02/1941
MCCREADIE, J - 27/02/1941
MCGLASHAM, JR - 27/02/1941
OLIVER, GW - 27/02/1941
PARKER, EE - 27/02/1941
POTTS, JD - 27/02/1941
RICHARDSON, JE - 27/02/1941
SCOTT, WH - 27/02/1941
SHANNON, LE - 27/02/1941
SMITH, I - 27/02/1941
TERNENT, G - 27/02/1941
WEBSTER, GA - 27/02/1941
WORRELL, CH - 27/02/1941

Adam[/i]
[url=http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/]Scottish War Memorials[/url]
[url=http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/]Scottish War Graves[/url]
[url=http://scottishmonuments.s2.bizhat.com/]Scottish Monuments, Memorials and Architectural Sculpture[/url]

Adam Brown
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Post by Adam Brown » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:50 pm

Here are the Ronaldshay's crew, all except McCreadie are buried in Moascar Cemetery, Egypt.

ARMITAGE, LESLIE
Rank: Master
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: S.S. Ronaldshay (Calcutta)
Age: 38
Date of Death: 22/10/1942
Additional information: Son of Stead and Clara Armitage, of Leeds, Yorkshire. His brother Tom also died on service.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 3. D. 12.
Cemetery: MOASCAR WAR CEMETERY

ASLAM MEAH
Rank: Deck Hand
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: S.S. Ronaldshay (Calcutta)
Date of Death: 22/10/1942
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 7. F. 6.
Cemetery: MOASCAR WAR CEMETERY

CANTOPHER, LEONARD GORDON
Rank: Second Engineer Officer
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: S.S. Ronaldshay (Calcutta)
Date of Death: 22/10/1942
Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. J. A. Cantopher; husband of Mary Cantopher, of Calcutta, India.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 3. D. 13.
Cemetery: MOASCAR WAR CEMETERY

McCREADIE, PETER
Rank: Chief Officer
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: Dredger Ronaldshay (Calcutta)
Age: 38
Date of Death: 22/10/1942
Additional information: Son of William and Elizabeth McCreadie; husband of Helen McCreadie, of Ardrossan, Ayrshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 88.
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

TAN AH HONG
Rank: Carpenter
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: S.S. Ronaldshay (Calcutta)
Date of Death: 22/10/1942
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 7. E. 14.
Cemetery: MOASCAR WAR CEMETERY

Peter McCreadie is also listed on the Ardrossan War Memorial

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=2473

Regards

Adam
Last edited by Adam Brown on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[url=http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/]Scottish War Memorials[/url]
[url=http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/]Scottish War Graves[/url]
[url=http://scottishmonuments.s2.bizhat.com/]Scottish Monuments, Memorials and Architectural Sculpture[/url]

jim mccreadie
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Fremantle, Western Australia

ANYONE WITH DIGITAL CAMERA VISITING TOWER HILL MEMORIAL?

Post by jim mccreadie » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:59 pm

BRILLIANT, Adam. I'll forward the RONALDSHAY crew list to Peter's daughter. Her mother Helen seldom spoke of Peter.

Thanks again mate.

Jim
q98
32 00 S 115 45 E

Adam Brown
Posts: 166
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Location: Edinburgh

Post by Adam Brown » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:24 pm

I don't know if you've seen this about the Ronaldshay

It's from a wartime history of the New Zealand Engineers. According to this history there were 58 casualties in the sinking of the Ronaldshay. We've only got 5. I'll have to check again but I don't know if a dredger would have a crew of at least 58?

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Engr-c11.html

The last day of August was notable for the arrival at Safaga of the Ronaldshay, a modern suction dredge which had been sent from India to dredge a berth in front of the main wharf. The Ronaldshay had been designed for work in canals and so had little freeboard and no bulkheads. It was a fine feat of seamanship getting her to Egypt. Her suction and delivery pipes had been shipped separately but failed to arrive, and the Chief Engineer, an elderly Scot, performed miracles of improvisation before the Indian crew could start work....

By the middle of October the Ronaldshay's crew had completed the repairs to the dredge, and after a two-day trial run was making necessary adjustments. On the 21st the first air-raid alarm was sounded at Safaga. A lone enemy plane made a leisurely ‘recce’ of the harbour, then departed without doing any damage beyond raising forebodings in the breasts of survivors from Greece and Crete. At mid-afternoon the following day another plane appeared over the bay and launched a torpedo at the dredge. There was a blinding explosion and the Ronaldshay sank within a matter of minutes, taking with her two of the English officers and fifty-six of the crew.
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[url=http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/]Scottish War Graves[/url]
[url=http://scottishmonuments.s2.bizhat.com/]Scottish Monuments, Memorials and Architectural Sculpture[/url]

jim mccreadie
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Fremantle, Western Australia

Post by jim mccreadie » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:00 pm

Aye Adam, I located that too and wondered if the total of 58 souls was not mostly local labourers or similar?

Jim
q98
32 00 S 115 45 E

Currie
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Post by Currie » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:52 am

It seems a bit strange they would bring a crew of 58 all the way from India on a 1023 ton dredger. But seeing the suction and delivery pipes didn’t arrive perhaps most of the improvisation mentioned was concentrated on getting the underwater suction related side of things into a workable state. All those additional “crew” may have been to do with whatever method they devised to get rid of the material sucked up so to speak. Maybe by lighter or barge etc depending on the location of the dredge in relation to where the material could be dumped and perhaps many were either on the dredge or close enough to the effects of the sledgehammer used to crack the nut.

It looks like both the Stanwold and the Ronaldshay are dive sites. A search in Google Books http://www.google.com/books?hl=en for "ronaldshay""safaga" brings up “Shipwrecks from the Egyptian Red Sea” and includes “sunk by German aircraft immediately outside the Egyptian Military base at Safaga”

Hope that’s useful,
Alan

jim mccreadie
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Fremantle, Western Australia

Post by jim mccreadie » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:09 am

Alan AGAIN - LOL!!

I have another report which simply states "an enemy aircraft"; no indication of Italian or German. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter though.

I wonder if the quote 58 unquote were local labourers employed to "hump" between the dredger and perhaps a lighter as there's NO sense whatever in dredging and pumping it back over the side is there?

Jim McCreadie
Fremantle
Western Australia

P.S. If someone can oblige with photos per my original request, I would be extremely grateful.
q98
32 00 S 115 45 E

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