Master Mariner

Fisherman, Merchant vessels, Emigrant ships etc.

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annie1
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: perthshire

Master Mariner

Post by annie1 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:40 pm

Hi all,

I am working on a new branch and away from farming for a bit! I have found a Robert Snelling, married in 1868 , he was a seaman, but beside career is the abbreviation MS, this is what I am not too clear about, would it stand for merchant seaman? when he died in 1904 he was a Master Mariner. Will I be able to find records of his rise to Master mariner at all?

Thanks
Ann
Working on
Rust, Brown & Reid, Aberdeen
Knowles, Murray,Stephen& Mackie, Kincardine
Doig, Reid, Wilson & Keddie, Fife

Tracey
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Re: Master Mariner

Post by Tracey » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:31 pm

Hi Ann

MS may, or probably does stand for Merchant Seaman. I should know whats findable as i was looking for my gt grandfather for a long time but the where's and hows have gone from the top of my head. The Seafaring help section on here may help for now.
Scotland - Donaldson / Moggach / Shaw / Geddes / Sim / Gray / Mackie / Richards / Joel / Coull / Mckimmie / Panton / McGregor
Ireland and Scotland - Casey / McDade / Phillips / McCandle / Dinely / Comaskey + various spellings

Hibee
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 3:24 pm

Re: Master Mariner

Post by Hibee » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:43 pm

Hi Ann

His mate's and master's certificates should be on file at Kew http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

They give details of vessels, dates, etc. but it may well mean a visit, or paying a pro to search.

Hibee
www.adams-of-adamsrow.com
Adam(s): Newton, Midlothian
Brock: Orkney/Leith
Bridges: Leith
Sweeney: Ireland/Leith
Brown: Edinburgh/Hamilton

annie1
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: perthshire

Re: Master Mariner

Post by annie1 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:11 pm

Thank you Tracey and Hibee, I did have a quick look at the national archives, but was not sure if I was in the right place, I will try again tomorrow, good to know there are records available.

Many thanks
Ann
Working on
Rust, Brown & Reid, Aberdeen
Knowles, Murray,Stephen& Mackie, Kincardine
Doig, Reid, Wilson & Keddie, Fife

Ann In the UK
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:44 pm

Re: Master Mariner

Post by Ann In the UK » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:38 am

Lloyds Captain's registers 1869-1911used to be held at the Guildhall in London. But now they've been moved to the London Metropolitan Archives. However, although the index is still listed on the Guildhall website here

http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm

guess what letter hasn't been indexed yet :(

For further info

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporat ... London.htm

The MS could stand for Merchant Service, or Merchant Seaman?


Another good place too look is the newspapers. Masters are often named in the shipping pages, and if he or his ship was ever involved in in incident, you'll find him there too. And don't just limit your search to British newspapers, try Trove and Papers Past, or just google - as a Master in the merchant service, he could pop up anywhere!

And have you tried the Seaman's records on FMP?

Currie
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Re: Master Mariner

Post by Currie » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:42 am

Hello Ann,

Was at his death the first time he was described as a Master Mariner. What did he give as his occupation on the 1901 census and previously.

What was his date of birth and where did he and his family usually live. You would have now seen that in the 1861-1913 Crew Lists at FMP there are several references in 1886 at Dundee to a Robert Snelling born in the 1840s in Forfarshire (Angus). http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/clip ... 5&x=27&y=9

Let me know if he was from Dundee as there are quite a few shipping lists in the Dundee Courier where Snelling is shown as Master. He was in the coastal trade. If you can’t easily access that newspaper online I’ll gather together some info for you.

All the best,
Alan

annie1
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: perthshire

Re: Master Mariner

Post by annie1 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:26 pm

Ann,
thank you for these two links, I will keep them for reference now, I had been looking for that list for a while now, without luck.

Alan,
yes it was only on his death certificate that he was a Master Mariner, I have spent the last few days trawling through the new BritishArchive Newpapers, in the Courier, but I couldnt find anything, he was from Dundee, but he was born in England abt 1847, but I might not be putting the right thing in the search box.

In the 1901 census he said he was a seaman, but in 1891 he was a Master (coasting steamer, I think) its a bit hard to read, I cant seem to find him in other census, maybe he was at sea.

Any help or tips on the Newspaper search would be great, its not a very common name in Scotland, so I though it would be easy!

Thanks
Ann
Working on
Rust, Brown & Reid, Aberdeen
Knowles, Murray,Stephen& Mackie, Kincardine
Doig, Reid, Wilson & Keddie, Fife

Currie
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Location: Australia

Re: Master Mariner

Post by Currie » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:43 am

Hello Ann,

I’ve listed hereunder the various mentions of a Snelling as master. (you’ll probably find the list easier to read from the bottom up, I can’t think of an easy way to invert it) All the vessels appear to have been small steamships involved in the coastal trade. That’s East coast and through the Forth and Clyde Canal. There were other notices that mentioned other ports such as St Andrews, Newcastle, Campbelltown, and Montrose. Cargoes were sometimes mentioned and in addition to any below there was salt and barley.

In April-May 1900 there appear to have been two Snellings working for the same company, although maybe it was one if it was possible to captain two ships from the locations and dates shown. The earlier ones, from the 1870s etc, are less likely to be him but you would have a better idea of that if you could find out when he got his masters ticket.

If you wanted to do a bit of digging for more info about the various ships and to check if some of the earlier ones were Dundee registered you could try the lists available on this site. http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/crows-nest.html

Someone in the coastal trade would be less likely to completely avoid a census although he may have been included in the Scottish or English one depending on wherever he happened to be at the time. There’s some info here. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/census2.html


The Scotsman, 29 August, 1902.
Dundee, August 27, sailed, Dane, s., Snelling, for Leith, goods.

The Courier and Argus (Dundee), November 23, 1900
Addition to the tonnage of Dundee.—Messrs D. & J. Nicol, ship and insurance brokers, Dock Street, have just purchased the steamer Tinto, of Bo’ness, built in 1895, 130 tons deadweight, and contracted with Messrs. Burrell & Son, ship-builders, Glasgow, to build two other steamers to carry 150 tons each. The three steamers will be employed in the coasting trade.

The Courier and Argus, May 12, 1900.
Listed under Dundee Steamers: Messrs. D. & J. Nicol’s
Energy, Snelling, at Leith from Goole, May 1.

The Courier and Argus, May 05, 1900.
Listed under Dundee Steamers: Messrs. D. & J. Nicol’s
Energy, Snelling, at Leith from Goole, May 1.
Tinto, Snelling, at Stirling from Middlesborough, May 3.

The Courier and Argus, May 01, 1900.
Energy, Snelling, at Goole from Arbroath, April 10.
Tinto, Snelling, arrived at West Hartlepool from Queensferry, April 30.

The Courier and Argus, April 26, 1900.
Energy, Snelling, at Goole from Arbroath, April 10.
Tinto, Snelling, at Fisherrow from Middlesbrough, April 23.

The Courier and Argus, April 20, 1900.
Energy, Snelling, at Goole from Arbroath, April 10.
Tinto, Snelling, at West Hartlepool from Queensferry, April 18.

The Courier and Argus, April 18, 1900.
Energy, Snelling, at Goole from Arbroath, April 10.
Tinto, Snelling, left Queensferry for West Hartlepool, April 12.

The Courier and Argus, April 05, 1900.
Tinto, Snelling, left Ardbeg for Port Dundas, April 3.

The Courier and Argus, April 02, 1900.
Energy, Snelling, arrived Arbroath from Lerwick, ballast, March 31.
Tinto, Snelling, left Aberdeen for Ardbeg, March 30.

The Courier and Argus, March 30, 1900.
Tinto, Snelling, arrived Dundee from Glasgow, March 28..

The Courier and Argus, January 31, 1900.
Arrived Dundee, January 30, Trojan, Snelling, London, loam.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, September 11, 1899.
Messrs. D. & J. Nicol, Dock Street, Dundee have been appointed managers for the East Coast Shipping Company, and they are to run the Company’s steamer Tinto in the general coasting trade on the East Coast, and also through the Forth and Clyde Canal. She was built of steel in 1895, and carries 120 tons deadweight on light draft, and has good speed.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, July 01, 1898.
Exports coastwise: Trojan, Snelling, Tyne, 100 tons spent bark, D. & J. Nicol, agents.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, May 17, 1893.
Imports Coastwise: Trojan, Snelling, Cork, 50 tons manure, B. L. Nairn, agent.

Aberdeen Weekly Journal, January 15, 1891.
Sailed January 14, Trojan, Snelling, Grangemouth, light.

Aberdeen Weekly Journal, January 8, 1891.
Arrived Aberdeen January 7, Trojan, Snelling, Lndon, manure.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, May 14, 1883.
Departed Dundee May 12, Jane, Snelling, Bo’ness, ballast.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, September 08, 1879.
Arrived Dundee, September 6, Pilot (s), Snelling, Bo’ness, coals.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, September 01, 1879.
Arrivals at Dundee, August 31, Pilot (s), 69, Snelling, Middlesbrough, iron.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, December 28, 1878.
Arrived Dundee, December 27, Pilot (s), 69, Snelling, Middlesbrough, iron pipes.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, December 20, 1870.
Imports Coastwise: Jessie & Emily (s), Snelling, from Middlesbro’, 148 tons ship plates, &c., James Ramsay, agent.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, June 29, 1870.
Imports Coastwise: Katherine (s), Snelling, from Sunderland, anchors and chains.


Hope that helps,
Alan

Ann In the UK
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:44 pm

Re: Master Mariner

Post by Ann In the UK » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:41 am

Hi,

I came across another useful site the other day which I hadn't seen before.

http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/crows-nest.html

It may help.

Regards
Ann

annie1
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: perthshire

Re: Master Mariner

Post by annie1 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:44 am

Hello Alan,

Thank you so much for all the listings, that has been a great help, I am actually a bit embarrassed, I had been reading the searches all wrong, I thought the ship was named Snelling! I really dont know much about sailing terms as yet! ahem!

Its wonderful to get all the ships names, I recently found a site with old photographs of ships docked in Dundee, so I must go back and compare, I can see the crows-nest site is packed full of great links, so I might get further with this. He actually died in Leith onboard a ship, so he must have been on a trip at the time.

I didnt think of checking the English census, I'll give that a try although I never found him there even as a child, so I am not sure when he moved up to Scotland.
I am going to have a good day searching on these sites.

You've been a great help again
Ann


Ann,

Thank you again, I see you and Alan must have added about the same time snap!
Working on
Rust, Brown & Reid, Aberdeen
Knowles, Murray,Stephen& Mackie, Kincardine
Doig, Reid, Wilson & Keddie, Fife

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